Double Foul

[commish]

In 30 years of officiating basketball I have never seen the following situation: Boy's varsity & 3 person crew. In a trasition brekaway, A20 drives to the basket on the Lead-Trail side of the floor. There is a massive collision with defender B15 as A20 is in the air laying the ball in the basket. Lead had a block and Trail had a chanrge. After consultation, the two officials involved come out with a double foul and wipe off the basket. Can there be a double foul in this situation? How can there be a charge when there was a block? How can there be a block when there was a charge?

[JoeD1]

Not only have I heard of this happening, I've seen it myself! Yes, there could be a double foul in that situation. Should there have been? No.

First of all, did the officials both give preliminary signals as soon as the call was made? If so, you have to go with the double foul. The only reason that happened was because of poor communication between the officials.

Now, if they didn't give signals before they discussed it, and *then* came out of the conference with the double foul call, that's a different story. They should have came out with one or the other. If they couldn't decide, the referee should have stepped in.

This is one of the situations that proponents of not selling calls point to in bolstering their case. I'm guessing that the officials in this situation both blew the whistle and then immediately "sold" their respective calls. I can see it now - the trail hopping down the sideline doing the block signal and the lead running with his hand behind his head.

Now, if both officials come out that strong with their call, how is it going to look if they then go back and say one of them was wrong? If the officials had taken their time and made good eye contact w/their partner (especially on the strong side), then you have a pretty good chance of avoiding this type of thing.

BTW - I'm not sure though if you should *not* count the basket in this case. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a double foul is not defined as a common foul and therefore this is one of those weird situations in which you could count a basket on a player control foul.

[Tim Roden]

I don't know how it could be but it is in the case book and if we both have different calls on the same play, then we have a double foul.

[JRutledge]

I posted this situation that happen to me about a month ago. Look back and you can see the discussion that we had. The double foul is supported in the casebook, so this is not impossible by rule, but it might be in logic.

Originally posted by commish
In 30 years of officiating basketball I have never seen the following situation: Boy's varsity & 3 person crew. In a trasition brekaway, A20 drives to the basket on the Lead-Trail side of the floor. There is a massive collision with defender B15 as A20 is in the air laying the ball in the basket. Lead had a block and Trail had a chanrge. After consultation, the two officials involved come out with a double foul and wipe off the basket. Can there be a double foul in this situation? How can there be a charge when there was a block? How can there be a block when there was a charge?

[BktBallRef]

Commish,

The same thing happened in an NCAA Regional Championship game last year between Mich. St. and Iowa St. Center called a block and the Lead came out with a PC foul. Since the Lead didn't come out with the raised fist but with the charge, there was no choice but to go with a double foul. The ISU kid got his 5th foul on the play.

In such cases where two conflicting calls are made, there is no choice but to call a double foul.

TH

[rainmaker]

Okay so this is a call that's okay by the book under certain situations.

But is there any way to describe the play such that a ref could call a double foul by him or her self? I mean where half of the double is the PC. Can there be both a block and a charge at the same time?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Okay so this is a call that's okay by the book under certain situations.

But is there any way to describe the play such that a ref could call a double foul by him or her self? I mean where half of the double is the PC. Can there be both a block and a charge at the same time?

Defender moves in late to try to take a charge (that's the blocking foul).

Dribbler fends off late arriving defender with a forearm and prevents him from moving to the spot (that's the PC).

It would be unusual for one official to see and call this a double foul.

What usually happens is that one official sees the arm, and one sees the defender move in late.

[mick]

Originally posted by Tim Roden
I don't know how it could be but it is in the case book and if we both have different calls on the same play, then we have a double foul.

Tim,
Because of the delay that feels so good in Baseball, I am really enjoying it, and employing it, in Basketball. That double foul will not happen to me. (fingers crossed )
I'll give it up, if I have to, every time that I have two whistles going off, but most times we get together before the preliminary signal.
We walk toward each other like two Statues of Liberty bearing away from the players.
mick

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by commish
A20 drives to the basket - defender B15 as A20 is in the air

Where do you work that teams have 15 and 20 players on a team?

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Where do you work that teams have 15 and 20 players on a team?

Mark,
Junior High ball, Houghton, MI.
22-24 players.
You can finally get some quality practice time in, if a flu epidemic hits the team.
mick