2nd T warranted?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by jeffpea

Teddy V "whacked" him the first time and should've just gotten away from him (use the "old" opposite table mechanic). Although I wasn't there and do not know what was said, you've got to just leave the coach alone when he's about ready to lose w/ 3.9 secs. left. It doesn't do the coach, you (the official), or the game any good to cause that kind of trouble at the end of the game.

The most important thing you said, "I wasn't there and do not know what was said." It is really easy to say what should have been done, but you like myself was not there. And the NCAA wanted to have the "table side" mechanic after fouls, so guess what, they got exactly what they wanted. I would not be surprised if that changes next year as a result.

Originally posted by jeffpea
As for the UAB vs. Kansas game - JUST GIVE THE COACH THE TIMEOUT and leave it alone.......He's losing by 20 - no need to toss him regardless of how much are pissed at him.

First of all, officials are not watching coaches, they are watching players. I am so tired of coaches acting like two year olds when we do not give them a timeout after they changed this rule. I am sure the gym was loud and the official was paying attention to more important issues. If you want a damn timeout, HAVE YOUR PLAYERS CALL IT!!! Hey, that is a novel idea. You do not have to be a jerk because you do not get your way. And coming all the way on the court and probably using language that would have the FCC giving out fines, probably contributed to that T. And in my opinion, he deserved it. Do not show up the official and think we are going to just turn a blind eye. And I bet if he did not give the coach a T, he would have been downgraded as a result.

When you roll the dice, you just might crap out. Well two coaches ran into the wrong officials for their antics. Maybe a 100 officials might have passed and given these guys a break, but that does not matter when the one you are dealing with pulls the trigger. They should have known better.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JRutledge

And the NCAA wanted to have the "table side" mechanic after fouls, so guess what, they got exactly what they wanted. I would not be surprised if that changes next year as a result.

Didn't one of the NCAA bulletins from Hank Nichols direct officials to go table side except after assessing a direct T to the head coach? Hold on, let me go check. . .

Hmmm, I can't seem to find that. All I could find is that we're supposed to go opposite after calling the 5th foul on a player. I could've sworn that they told us to go opposite after a T on the coach. Anybody else remember that?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Tough times for Texas
Two T's - Terrible Teddy
It's time to takeoff

From somebody else's post, I'm assuming you mean Teddy V. What was "terrible"? You mean he had a bad game? Or he was like Ivan the Terrible? I didn't get to see much of the game, but what I saw, the officiating was very good.

[swampe4]

What a great game Xavier/Texas until the end--Mr V's ego came thru again--3 seconds to go and Mr V (the almighty one)-- I don't care what Barnes said or did with 3 seconds to go most mature officals are not going to make that call--Not Mr. V--His history proven over and over an inability to set aside his ego for 3 seconds. Signed Ego and Issues

[mick]

Originally posted by swampe4
What a great game Xavier/Texas until the end--Mr V's ego came thru again--3 seconds to go and Mr V (the almighty one)-- I don't care what Barnes said or did with 3 seconds to go most mature officals are not going to make that call--Not Mr. V--His history proven over and over an inability to set aside his ego for 3 seconds. Signed Ego and Issues

swampe4,
Pretty qick judgement.
Could that be because "it" wasn't said to you?
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by swampe4
I don't care what Barnes said or did with 3 seconds to go most mature officals are not going to make that call

And how exactly do you know that? Do you know exactly what Barnes said? Do you know for sure that MOST mature officials are gonna agree with you? Do you have those poll results handy? Do you know that the officials weren't given pre-game instructions by the NCAA on how to deal with coaches that got out of line?

Just another whiny, losing coach that doesn't know how accept defeat without trying to blame someone else for it, rather than admit his team got outplayed and he got outcoached. Valentine didn't toss Barnes. Barnes tossed himself! Exactly the same as the goober from UAB that also tried to blame the officials for his team getting the supreme snot beaten outa them. Just a complete lack of class by both of them.

And just another whiny, losing fanboy now comes outa the woodwork to try and blame the officials when his team lost.
The best team won, and the officiating wasn't a factor. Get over it.

[FHSUref]

Did anyone see the UAB coach walk completely on the floor (about 2 feet from the lane) while his guys were dribbling up the floor.

As an official, I would have been startled. On the replay, the official is counting 10 and shielded by the UAB player with the ball. Then poof, there is the coach screaming and yelling. It didn't take long for teh official to give him the "heaven and hell" T. (explanation of the heaven and hell T......One hand starts way above the head and the other one starts way below the belt......when they meet....T T T T T!)

It was classic! Not Bobby Knight chair across the free throw line classic but still classic.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Didn't one of the NCAA bulletins from Hank Nichols direct officials to go table side except after assessing a direct T to the head coach? Hold on, let me go check. . .

Hmmm, I can't seem to find that. All I could find is that we're supposed to go opposite after calling the 5th foul on a player. I could've sworn that they told us to go opposite after a T on the coach. Anybody else remember that?

When the women changed their rotation (last season), they said the calling official "has the option to go opposite the table if an adversarial situation has or could occur." The bulletin does suggest staying tableside on T's or ejections, but then reminds officials that they can simply go to C.

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/baske...3/20020904.pdf

Can't find anything official from the men, but I seem to recall the same provision being in effect - the calling official always has the option of going opposite.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by jeffpea

As for the UAB vs. Kansas game - JUST GIVE THE COACH THE TIMEOUT and leave it alone.......He's losing by 20 - no need to toss him regardless of how much are pissed at him.

Absolutely not.

If he takes a step onto the court to get my attention, or he's screaming really loud but only screaming for the timeout, he'll get the timeout (and probably a warning to cool it down a bit).

When he's that far out on the court, that's (a) showing up all of the officials, and (II) a safety issue - if there's a fast break the other way, he's in the middle of it.

Regardless of the time, score, and however many other T's the coach has, this is one that has to be called.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by JRutledge

The most important thing you said, "I wasn't there and do not know what was said." It is really easy to say what should have been done, but you like myself was not there. And the NCAA wanted to have the "table side" mechanic after fouls, so guess what, they got exactly what they wanted. I would not be surprised if that changes next year as a result.

Peace

Yes, table side after fouls, EXCEPT after T'ing a coach. Then you go opposite to get away from the coach. NCAA got exactly what they didn't want in this case.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

From somebody else's post, I'm assuming you mean Teddy V. What was "terrible"? You mean he had a bad game? Or he was like Ivan the Terrible? I didn't get to see much of the game, but what I saw, the officiating was very good.

Chuck, lighten up. It's only Haiku, gotta do something to accumulate 7 syllables.

Terrible gave me 3 of them.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by swampe4
What a great game Xavier/Texas until the end--Mr V's ego came thru again--3 seconds to go and Mr V (the almighty one)-- I don't care what Barnes said or did with 3 seconds to go most mature officals are not going to make that call--Not Mr. V--His history proven over and over an inability to set aside his ego for 3 seconds. Signed Ego and Issues

Swamp guy - yep, it's not normal for things to go this way, but if you ask me given Valentine's reputation it was up to Barnes to just shut up. No way Barnes didn't know what was coming next, IMO.

Maybe if we were all as hard-@ssed as Valentine life would be easier all around.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

Swamp guy - yep, it's not normal for things to go this way, but if you ask me given Valentine's reputation it was up to Barnes to just shut up. No way Barnes didn't know what was coming next, IMO.

Maybe if we were all as hard-@ssed as Valentine life would be easier all around.

[/B][/QUOTE]Heresy! Heresy, I tell ya!!!

You really expect a coach to be smart enough to know what he can say or not say to a particular official? Especially a particular official who has a reputation of not taking too much crap? And you further expect that maybe that coach might actually expect to be held responsible for his actions? Tsk,tsk,tsk! Next thing you know, you'll probably expect coaches to keep off of the floor while the game is going on too.

Blasphemy!

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Swamp guy - yep, it's not normal for things to go this way, but if you ask me given Valentine's reputation it was up to Barnes to just shut up. No way Barnes didn't know what was coming next, IMO.

Maybe if we were all as hard-@ssed as Valentine life would be easier all around.

Good call, Sparky!

[swampe4]

I must be on the right track with Mr.V (the almighty one), It seems no one wants to defend this guy much or his decision making abilities/inabilities. Did his decision Change the out come of the game? Probably not-- Did his decision Change the game? Yes by at least 4 free throws with 3 seconds to go! Sorry, I have watched Mr. V too long. Isn't he due for mandatory retirement or multiple "How to Control my Ego as I get Older" Classes.