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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 11:48am
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Player 1 catches ball on run with one (1st) foot on floor, then 2nd foot reaches floor, then 1st foot is lifted off floor and placed back down as if 2nd foot is now pivot. This is one fluid motion. No whistle??? What is with this philosophy?
Why not give them another step?
Wait, I've got it, let's forget the dribble altogether and let 'em run around like 3rd grade children...
I've found if you blow the whistle early then the players adjust. It seems those who are not calling this are just being lazy...
Let's hear it...
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 12:58pm
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1. I don't see this happen that frequently.

2. It happens very quickly, and it may look like a travel to you, a 1-2 stop to another.

3. Blowing the whistle on a high speed play that doesn't even happen once every game probably has very little impact on what players do, in my experience - but it does leave them puzzled.

Bottom line, if you think they travelled, be sure before you blow the whistle. I saw Gonzaga whistled for a travel in their game that was just a blown call. Player pivoted, dribbled (releasing before lifting the pivot foot), pivoted back, kept pivot foot down and pivoted forward, lifted pivot foot and shot. And it wasn't that fast as post moves go. I thought great move til I heard the whistle - took it to slow mo replay (replay tv is great) and verified what I thought I saw the first time - pivot foot was never lifted and returned to the floor, no travel.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 01:05pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jcash
Player 1 catches ball on run with one (1st) foot on floor, then 2nd foot reaches floor, then 1st foot is lifted off floor and placed back down as if 2nd foot is now pivot. This is one fluid motion. No whistle??? What is with this philosophy?
Why not give them another step?
Wait, I've got it, let's forget the dribble altogether and let 'em run around like 3rd grade children...
I've found if you blow the whistle early then the players adjust. It seems those who are not calling this are just being lazy...
Let's hear it...
jcash -- It would be helpful and more appropriate if you could post your question without the sarcasm and insult. We do occasionally get a little testy with each other on this baord, but we try to refrain from blanket insults toward people who don't agree with our philosophies. It has nothing to do with political correctness, it's just basic respect for other human beings. Thanks.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 01:08pm
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I can turn on tube today and count at least 5 the first five minutes of any game...except maybe in womens. The officials seem to be on their game a bit more as the women's game seems to be a bit more fundamentally sound. Even the spot-up for a trey will go on several times a game with no air in the whistle...I don't get it?
Are college officials coached not to call this "small" violation?
It's is still a violation, correct?
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 01:12pm
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I have heard that the 1-2 stop at the three point line followed by a change in pivot foot to pivot and face the basket for a trey is not going to be called in NCAA - it's just something they don't feel needs to be called I guess. That is the one travelling pass I think I object to most, because it is a rule violation that leads to a significant advantage to the offense.

Overall, NCAA is not going to pass on all travels, but they also don't want every possession to end in a traveling call. They try to balance the flow of the game with the need to keep it played correctly and fairly.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jcash
I can turn on tube today and count at least 5 the first five minutes of any game...except maybe in womens. The officials seem to be on their game a bit more as the women's game seems to be a bit more fundamentally sound. Even the spot-up for a trey will go on several times a game with no air in the whistle...I don't get it?
Are college officials coached not to call this "small" violation?
It's is still a violation, correct?
Thanks for cooling down the tone. I agree with you, but it appears that they are indeed told to ignore the smallest travels. On the original play that you posted, I'm pretty sure the interp given by the calling (or rather, no-calling) ref would be that possession of the ball wasn't actually attained until after that first foot came up off the floor. Whether you and I agree with it or not, that does seem to be the standard way to see it.

It's no big deal to me since I will probabbly never work that level of ball. But if you are hoping to work D1 one day on the men's side, you had probably better talk to some folks at various levels and find out what kinds of adjustments in your thinking you have to make to get there. I know I've had to go through several mind shifts to adjust to the way the game is played in my city, at the level I'm aspiring to. You have to decide whether you can adopt someone else's philosophy, or whether you need to be true to your own standards at the expense of moving up. Can be a tough choice.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 01:18pm
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Smile

Thanks, Hawks Coach. That answer helps me understand it a bit more.
It still seems like the whistle would fix it and there wouldn't be fans or officials in training so confused as to why it's not a violation.
The players will adjust.
The philosophy you stated, if it is truly being taught to withhold the whistle is just wrong and sounds as if a lot of caving in is taking place to the coaches not liking a particular call.
I like fundamental b-ball...
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 01:58pm
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Lightbulb What is fundamental?

Like everything else, b-ball adjusts to the times. We don't have third graders running around the court here, we have a standard move that has been accepted as being ok uner the rules as currently interpreted. So this is now fundamental b-ball.

I read a lot of people that are upset with no calls aon "carries" or "travels." But if the calling (and no-calling) within a game, conference, league, level of play (HS/college) is consistent, then all we are talking about is different perceptions of standards. I don't have trouble watching a game if I tell myself not to worry about the violations that should be called if the game were played like the rulebook. Just worry about it if there are inconsistent standards applied to the game.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 02:27pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jcash
Player 1 catches ball on run with one (1st) foot on floor, then 2nd foot reaches floor, then 1st foot is lifted off floor and placed back down as if 2nd foot is now pivot. This is one fluid motion. No whistle??? What is with this philosophy?
jcash, I agree with you. This has really stood out to me over and over on slow motion replays of games this week, often when a player gets open, catches a back door pass, and sets himself for a dunk. The rule seems to have rewritten itself on the court. The footwork described here has become a no call at the college level, and is becoming one at the high school level as well. My problem is that our association has never specifically addressed this:
"This play is really a travel, but don't call it." Perhaps others have, anyone? But it is difficult to call this violation on players who have been allowed to do it all season without a call.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2004, 03:26pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
The only 2 times when we are good:
1. Right after somebody wins: "Nice job, ref!"
We lost in a tournament final yesterday against our biggest rival. Refs were great - we weren't. Zero offensive execution the entire game - ran nothing right after playing well both games Saturday. Compounding our problems, we shot 4-19 from the line only to lose by 5.

I thanked the refs and told them they did a great job. They did, and you want good refs in a championship game. Now if only we can fix our issues
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Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 12:23am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
The only 2 times when we are good:
1. Right after somebody wins: "Nice job, ref!"
We lost in a tournament final yesterday against our biggest rival. Refs were great - we weren't. Zero offensive execution the entire game - ran nothing right after playing well both games Saturday. Compounding our problems, we shot 4-19 from the line only to lose by 5.

I thanked the refs and told them they did a great job. They did, and you want good refs in a championship game. Now if only we can fix our issues
My signature line is spoken in a lighthearted manner, but is not totally without foundation. There are exceptions, like yourself, who are gracious in defeat to everyone, including the officials. There are also exceptions in the other direction: "We won, but we had to beat all 7 of them!" "Our officials last night were as bad as you!"
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