No Precision Time? HS Mechanics?

[BktBallRef]

Okay, what's going on here? I haven't see but a couple of games today, AF vs. UNC and Dayton/DePaul, but the officials are both games are NOT using Precision Time. In the Dayton/DePaul game, DePaul attempted to call TO at the end of the game, Whistle blew but clock didn't stop and they didn't pout the time back up, using the lag time rule.

Also, the officials in the Carolina game were raising there hands to stop the clock on violations and OOB situations. it was actually quite refreshing.

Have these two things been consistent in all of the games?

[ref18]

I've noticed the same thing.

I haven't seen Precision Timing yet in the tournament.

[Mark Dexter]

NCAA tourney doesn't use precision time, as not every stadium in which games are played has the equipment. (Although I believe that should also be a requirement to host.)

As to the time - are you sure they used lag time? I agree that it looked wierd, but I'm not sure exactly what they did. The 0.4 in OT1 was nailed.

[ref18]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the cost for the precision timing equipment is??

[BktBallRef]

At the end of regulation, the whistel defintely sounded at least .5 before the horn. But sine time expired, they didn't put time back on it. For some reason, they handled differently in the OT.

PT costs vary, anywhere from $2500 to $16K-$18K. You can get it in very simple form, like that used for HS or you can get a very advanced version like the NBA uses. A former official in our group works with Mike Constable and travels to all the major events to make sure things run smoothly with it. He told me that the NBA version records which official blows his whistle, every time he blows it and records the time. The HS version is not nearly so sophisticated.

I find it difficult to believe that the arenas not owning a PT system has anything to do with the NCAA not using it in the tournament. The game today were played in Denver, where the Nuggets play, in Raleigh, where NC State plays, in Seattle where the Sonics play and in Buffalo. Not having PT isn't an issue.

I don't know why it's not being used but it has to go deeper than that. I'll find out tomorrow.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
NCAA tourney doesn't use precision time, as not every stadium in which games are played has the equipment. (Although I believe that should also be a requirement to host.)

As to the time - are you sure they used lag time? I agree that it looked wierd, but I'm not sure exactly what they did. The 0.4 in OT1 was nailed.

My friend, a fellow official, and I were watching the game together and I had him blurt out when the TO was requested. I had my eyes fixed on the clock. The clock was changing from 0.8 to 0.7 when he said, "now".

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

My friend, a fellow official, and I were watching the game together and I had him blurt out when the TO was requested. I had my eyes fixed on the clock. The clock was changing from 0.8 to 0.7 when he said, "now".

When it's requested is not the issue. It's when it was granted, when the official blows his whistle.

[FHSUref]

[i]
When it's requested is not the issue. It's when it was granted, when the official blows his whistle. [/B]

A very good point!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

My friend, a fellow official, and I were watching the game together and I had him blurt out when the TO was requested. I had my eyes fixed on the clock. The clock was changing from 0.8 to 0.7 when he said, "now".

If we went based on the request - I'd say put 1.4 on the clock (one of the players up at the top of the key actually requested the timeout before the player on the baseline.)

I couldn't hear the whistle on the replay (it was silent), but I saw the lead's hand go up with 0.3 seconds left on the clock. Being able to hear the whistle on the replay, 0.4 seems reasonable.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
At the end of regulation, the whistel defintely sounded at least .5 before the horn. But sine time expired, they didn't put time back on it. For some reason, they handled differently in the OT.

Because of regional coverage, CBS went away on my cable - does anyone know if they even went to the replay monitor?

I find it difficult to believe that the arenas not owning a PT system has anything to do with the NCAA not using it in the tournament. The game today were played in Denver, where the Nuggets play, in Raleigh, where NC State plays, in Seattle where the Sonics play and in Buffalo. Not having PT isn't an issue.

I don't know why it's not being used but it has to go deeper than that. I'll find out tomorrow.

I dunno - I know the NIT uses it if available - this was my best guess for NCAA.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I dunno - I know the NIT uses it if available - this was my best guess for NCAA.

Well, here's what I found out. We were both correct in our thinking. There are a few sites that don't have it available. Since all sites don't have it, the NCAA has chosen not to use it at all. Evidently, the NCAA didn't want to purchase the equipment for those sites. So even though it's available in some places, in Raleigh for instance, it wasn't used. I felt like there was a little more to it.

In a couple of years, it will be required for all D1 schools.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Mar 19th, 2004 at 09:46 AM]

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

If we went based on the request - I'd say put 1.4 on the clock (one of the players up at the top of the key actually requested the timeout before the player on the baseline.)

I couldn't hear the whistle on the replay (it was silent), but I saw the lead's hand go up with 0.3 seconds left on the clock. Being able to hear the whistle on the replay, 0.4 seems reasonable.

Maybe we should always have 4 officials on the game...3 on the court and 1 sitting in front of the clock with his back to the floor to make sure no team gets rooked for so much as .1 second!! That would be just horrible if someone didn't get their precious .1 more second added back to the clock!

We're human...we're fallible...when will that be understood? High level officials not only can go to monitors but also use the Precision Time method. No matter what it used, human officials will never achieve perfection! I wish administrators would concede this.

[Edited by Indy_Ref on Mar 19th, 2004 at 10:09 AM]

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

In a couple of years, it will be required for all D1 schools.

Has this been officially decided by the committee yet? Or are they still strongly recommending and it looks like they'll change the rule in the future?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Indy_Ref

We're human...we're fallible...when will that be understood? High level officials not only can go to monitors but also use the Precision Time method. No matter what it used, human officials will never achieve perfection! I will administrators would concede this.

Of course we'll never be perfect, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. When it comes down to something a computer chip can do better than a human timer, go with the computer chip. We owe it to the players, coaches, schools, and fans to be as exact as possible with the clock - especially at the end of games and in the tourney, where every game seems to come down to a last-second shot.

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Of course we'll never be perfect, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. When it comes down to something a computer chip can do better than a human timer, go with the computer chip. We owe it to the players, coaches, schools, and fans to be as exact as possible with the clock - especially at the end of games and in the tourney, where every game seems to come down to a last-second shot.

If we are worried about .1 second at the end of the game...what about all .1 seconds that are lost during the rest of the 39+ minutes????