2004 Final Four Officials - Page 2

gostars · #16 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 16, 2004, 06:22pm

[/B]

Quote:

One point of advice. Never base your opinion of officials off of a radio announcer's opinion. You don't know nearly enough about the game to make that comment. Okay, a 2nd point, what was it about the Kansas-UT crew that was "bad?" Pointer, you'd best have some concrete example of missed rules or something to that effect.
Kansas fan, perhaps? [/B]

My criticism of the UT-OSU crew was the shot clock violation mix-up. In addition, no one was watching the players after a foul was called and one of the OSU players was pushed into the bench. The Texas announcers thought that it was intentional. I saw the Kansas-UT game and they missed many calls. Most of them hurt Texas. For example, the offensive player would push the defender with an elbow and the defender would be called for a block.

Brad · #17 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 16, 2004, 07:23pm

Gostars,

Do you officiate?

I say that because I find your comment that "I saw the Kansas-UT game and they missed many calls. Most of them hurt Texas." to be very close to what a fan would say.

Remember that you always have a different look on the floor than from the TV cameras.

- Brad

wyoref16 · #18 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 16, 2004, 07:55pm

I would like to see David Hall and Tim Higgins in there. Hightower?? Oh please.....

TriggerMN · #19 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 16, 2004, 09:43pm

If Dook makes it, I want Ray Natili!

Is there a rule about the guys who work the national title game one year get rotated out the following year? For instance, would Boudreaux, Greene, and Cartmell not be eligible for the final this year?

gostars · #20 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 16, 2004, 11:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
Gostars,

Do you officiate?

I say that because I find your comment that "I saw the Kansas-UT game and they missed many calls. Most of them hurt Texas." to be very close to what a fan would say.

Remember that you always have a different look on the floor than from the TV cameras.

- Brad

I do not (though I would love to). The call that I am complaining there was an official right there. In one case, the camera was right behind the official so that you could see everything he could. I know that officials can't see everything but in several cases the could not help but see and made the wrong call. During a timeout, they checked a reply to se if a FG was the two or three (they had given him a two) the replay showed that he did not have a foot on the line and they still did not change it.

One-Whistle · #21 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 16, 2004, 11:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
If Dook makes it, I want Ray Natili!

Is there a rule about the guys who work the national title game one year get rotated out the following year? For instance, would Boudreaux, Greene, and Cartmell not be eligible for the final this year?

All I know is.... I am not eligible this year!

canuckrefguy · #22 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 02:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by gostars
I do not (though I would love to).

Gee, I never would have guessed.

Quote:

The call that I am complaining there was an official right there. In one case, the camera was right behind the official so that you could see everything he could.

Quote:

I know that officials can't see everything but in several cases the could not help but see and made the wrong call.

Quote:

During a timeout, they checked a reply to se if a FG was the two or three (they had given him a two) the replay showed that he did not have a foot on the line and they still did not change it.

Maybe the video was inconclusive. If so, how can they change the call?

All in all, I'd say

[Edited by canuckrefguy on Mar 17th, 2004 at 01:07 AM]

RookieDude · #23 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 02:59am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TriggerMN
If Dook makes it, I want Ray Natili!

Is there a rule about the guys who work the national title game one year get rotated out the following year? For instance, would Boudreaux, Greene, and Cartmell not be eligible for the final this year?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of Dick Cartmell...

Another thread asked who was the most famous people we had officiated for.
Many of you had some very famous names...I've had a couple future D1 players, not to famous, but has anyone had a D1 official's kid playing in a game with the D1 official there watching?
I officiated 3 games this year for a Richland, WA High School boys varsity team. (They went to State this year..."two and out")
Cartmell's two sons play for this team, the Richland "Bombers".
Dick goes to as many games as he can, with his college schedule and all, and it is interesting to call a game knowing a very good D1 official is watching with a critical eye.
Dick Cartmell started officiating in our local H.S. association and he gives a lecture every year for us...very knowledgeable and insightful individual.

A funny story about Mr. Cartmell:
Last fall a bunch of us guys went to an annual party a local Catholic school puts on. It's great fun, especially the beer garden in the gymnasium. Well, Dick Cartmell was helping serve in the beer garden. A fellow official and I noticed that Dick had on a Final Four T-shirt from 2003, where he was an official. I wasn't sure he would recognize me amongst all the people...so as Dick was handing me my refreshment I asked him jokingly, in front of some local Coaches and officials that were there, "Nice shirt, have you ever been to a final four game".
He casually responded, "ah yeah, a couple times".
We all got a pretty good laugh out of it, especially the way he took it so ho hum.
I did feel pretty good this year after a Richland H.S. game. As I was walking out, Dick said "Nice game Dan, good job"...of course Richland had won the game.
Anyway, that's my brush with fame.

johnSandlin · #24 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 11:19am

I have to agree with snagwells recent response. We want to be carefull about how we say a particular crew was bad without presenting any evidence to back up our opinion.

Quick example, about 6 or 7 years ago I was working a huge city baseball tournament in Battle Creek, Michigan and my partner(young umpire) was putting down veteran MLB umpire Tim Welke about a fair/foul call he had made in a recent game.

Well, unaware of his surroundings, this particular umpire did not realize that veteran MLB umpire Mike Reilly who is from Battle Creek was home on vacation, and could hear him putting down Welke.

Let's just that this particular umpire who was so vocal about Welke shut his mouth real quick when Reilly got involved in the conversation.

I normally say until I have that kind of officiating resume like those of Valentine, Sanzere, Hightower, Welmer, etec....I do not one inch of room to put those guys down.

Mark Dexter · #25 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 11:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

I did feel pretty good this year after a Richland H.S. game. As I was walking out, Dick said "Nice game Dan, good job"...of course Richland had won the game.
Anyway, that's my brush with fame.

I give a bit more credence to this sort of thing coming from a D-I official than a coach, parent or player . . .

tomegun · #26 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
If Dook makes it, I want Ray Natili!

Is there a rule about the guys who work the national title game one year get rotated out the following year? For instance, would Boudreaux, Greene, and Cartmell not be eligible for the final this year?

I don't think this was the crew from the national title game.

Valentine might be a showman but I would rather see a showman than see an official jumping around, leaning a peeking on every play. That just doesn't work for me. I think Valentine is a great official with a unique style. He just likes to make around-the-back, between-the-legs calls

TriggerMN · #27 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 02:10pm

My mistake. Cartmell and Boudreaux did the national title game last year, but the third official was Reggie Cofer, not Tony Greene. I just checked the box score. Carry on.

tomegun · #28 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 06:51pm

Where did you find the box score? I thought for sure Donnee Gray did the championship game.

gostars · #29 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 09:06pm

I thought the Texas-Kansas crew did not do a good job. That is just my opinion and some people who did not watch the game have a problem with that. I did reference several calls in my second post that I did not think were right. You would have to see them to know either way. There were more then the ones I mentioned but I can't remember them now. My complaint about the OSU-UT crew was poor game management and blowing the ball after the shot clock expired when there was no violation. In a conference championship game and the NCAA tournament, the officials should now that everyone is very charged up and someone needs to watch the players during a ball. It doesn't (or shouldn't) take the officials to report a foul to the table.

ref18 · #30 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 17, 2004, 10:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gostars
I thought the Texas-Kansas crew did not do a good job. That is just my opinion and some people who did not watch the game have a problem with that. I did reference several calls in my second post that I did not think were right. You would have to see them to know either way. There were more then the ones I mentioned but I can't remember them now. My complaint about the OSU-UT crew was poor game management and blowing the ball after the shot clock expired when there was no violation. In a conference championship game and the NCAA tournament, the officials should now that everyone is very charged up and someone needs to watch the players during a ball. It doesn't (or shouldn't) take the officials to report a foul to the table.

There is a reason that they're working these games and you're not. Until you're in that situation you shouldn't be reaming the people that were. Learn from what they do, so maybe someday you'll be doing games at that level. I know I'd love to work a final four game. I think that would be the highlite of my life.