NBA mechanics?

[rainmaker]

My family actually enjoyed an NBA game on TV last night, since the Blazers are playing real basketball these days, and also since they beat Sacramento.

But I noticed two things I thought were interesting in reffing terms. 1) There was one time when the lead was on camera, there was a skip pass from low post to low 3-point line area, and the lead literally sprinted across the lane to rotate. He didn't power-walk, he would have beat Michael Johnson. I thought running on rotation was verboten. 2) Ball in a 7th grade girls' type pigpile, closest ref wants to come in with a violation call, and he cups both hands around his mouth and whistle, directing his tweet and his voice towrad the players on the floor. I thought that was kind of a good idea. Is this acceptable? Have others seen this?

[Woodee]

Juulie,

Regarding the L running, I watch a lot of NBA and noticed just about all of them do that this year. I've also noticed a lot of mistakes when the lead sprints over especially when there is a quick transition the other way. Most of the time they catch it quickly and recover.

I really admire those guys and gal!

Her name escapes me, but the African American Female is really good! Check her out!

Side note: I would LOVE to hear a pre-game when the Lakers are playing. I'd like to know the rules with Shaq.

[ref18]

I think her name is Virginia Palmer, but i'm not too sure on that.

Didn't there used to be 2 females, but 1 got fired or something like that? I remeber hearing something about it when i started officiating.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Woodee
Juulie,

Regarding the L running, I watch a lot of NBA and noticed just about all of them do that this year. I've also noticed a lot of mistakes when the lead sprints over especially when there is a quick transition the other way. Most of the time they catch it quickly and recover.

I really admire those guys and gal!

Her name escapes me, but the African American Female is really good! Check her out!

Side note: I would LOVE to hear a pre-game when the Lakers are playing. I'd like to know the rules with Shaq.

Violet Palmer,she is cool.Tells a great story and is very frank about her trip to the top.

[ace]

NBA mechanics are NOTHING like college and HS mechanics, getting the best angle to see a play is VERY IMPORTANT (hence why they started using flex rotation a few years ago) and in the lead runs over to get a better angle at a play and no one else adjusts he just runs back to his side. You'll also see new trails comeing down the court in a 2 man trail type line. Thier mechanics manual emphasises postion and getting the best angle. An NBA evaluator told me. "to get the play right you have to see the whole play at the correct angle." Watching the NBA officials wont do much for your mechanics but it'll do a whole lot to work on your court presence and presentation.

FYI: The rules for Shaq are the same for everyone else.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ace
NBA mechanics are NOTHING like college and HS mechanics, getting the best angle to see a play is VERY IMPORTANT (hence why they started using flex rotation a few years ago) and in the lead runs over to get a better angle at a play and no one else adjusts he just runs back to his side. You'll also see new trails comeing down the court in a 2 man trail type line. Thier mechanics manual emphasises postion and getting the best angle. An NBA evaluator told me. "to get the play right you have to see the whole play at the correct angle." Watching the NBA officials wont do much for your mechanics but it'll do a whole lot to work on your court presence and presentation.

I wasn't watching to try to learn anything about mechanics. I just happened to notice.


Anyone have any comments about the yelling into the pigpile thing?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by ace
NBA mechanics are NOTHING like college and HS mechanics,

Um, nothing? College officials use the "flex" rotation, just like the NBA. College officials send the calling official table-side for all free throws, just like the NBA. NCAAW officials report with the "walk and talk" mechanic, just like the NBA; and also use the fist punch to indicate an "offensive" foul. Many of the signals are the same between the two sets of mechanics. There are obviously a lot of differences, but it's a stretch to say that they're "nothing" alike.

getting the best angle to see a play is VERY IMPORTANT

And it's not important in HS and college?

The fact is, Juulie, the NBA wants rotations much more quickly than the NCAA calls for them. The NCAA says you rotate when the ball settles below the FT line extended. The NBA says you rotate almost as soon as the ball crosses the middle of the court. They want two officials on the ball-side if at all possible.

So in your situation, the Lead recognized that he needed a rotation. Additionally, once he makes that rotation, he was going to be responsible for the 3-point shot from the corner. That's part of the Lead's primary in NBA coverage. So he needed to rotate and get very wide to officiate a deep 3-point shot as quickly as possible. So maybe he felt that he couldn't get there unless he ran.

In general, I think you make a valid observation. Running across the lane is usually not approved. However, it's not "verboten". As we always say, you do what you need to do in order to call the play. In this play, maybe the official just felt that's what he had to do to get the position he needed.

As for cupping the hands, I've seen it but never done it. I'm short enough that when I blow the whistle, I'm right around the level of the players on the floor anyway Seriously, I get into the pigpile in a pretty big hurry, so I don't feel it's necessary to "direct" the whistle at the pile. I'm already there.

FYI: The rules for Shaq are the same for everyone else.

While the written rules are no different when Shaq's on the court, I think a lot of NBA officials will tell you that it's very difficult to apply them in a consistent manner when he's playing. Advantage/disadvantage becomes very difficult. Shaq's so big that he can (and does) absorb a LOT of contact without being disadvantaged. So do you let him get beat up just b/c he's not disadvantaged? Or do you call a couple of "ticky-tack" fouls to try and keep guys from being draped all over him for the whole game? Do you call an offensive foul when he backs down his defender, even tho the contact is relatively light? He's so big, he can just move them, without really pushing very hard. So is that a foul? The rules are there, but it's very hard to apply them fairly to both sides.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I'm short enough that when I blow the whistle, I'm right around the level of the players on the floor anyway

[/B]

Sometimes even when they're standing up too.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref18
I think her name is Virginia Palmer, but i'm not too sure on that.

Didn't there used to be 2 females, but 1 got fired or something like that? I remeber hearing something about it when i started officiating.

Dee Kantner. I think she lasted 4 seasons.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Dee Kantner. I think she lasted 4 seasons.

I think she lasted 1 or 2 in developmental and only one at the NBA level. She just didn't have the "presence" that Violet has on the court.

[Woodee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Um, nothing? College officials use the "flex" rotation, just like the NBA. College officials send the calling official table-side for all free throws, just like the NBA. NCAAW officials report with the "walk and talk" mechanic, just like the NBA; and also use the fist punch to indicate an "offensive" foul. Many of the signals are the same between the two sets of mechanics. There are obviously a lot of differences, but it's a stretch to say that they're "nothing" alike.

And it's not important in HS and college?

The fact is, Juulie, the NBA wants rotations much more quickly than the NCAA calls for them. The NCAA says you rotate when the ball settles below the FT line extended. The NBA says you rotate almost as soon as the ball crosses the middle of the court. They want two officials on the ball-side if at all possible.

So in your situation, the Lead recognized that he needed a rotation. Additionally, once he makes that rotation, he was going to be responsible for the 3-point shot from the corner. That's part of the Lead's primary in NBA coverage. So he needed to rotate and get very wide to officiate a deep 3-point shot as quickly as possible. So maybe he felt that he couldn't get there unless he ran.

In general, I think you make a valid observation. Running across the lane is usually not approved. However, it's not "verboten". As we always say, you do what you need to do in order to call the play. In this play, maybe the official just felt that's what he had to do to get the position he needed.

As for cupping the hands, I've seen it but never done it. I'm short enough that when I blow the whistle, I'm right around the level of the players on the floor anyway Seriously, I get into the pigpile in a pretty big hurry, so I don't feel it's necessary to "direct" the whistle at the pile. I'm already there.

While the written rules are no different when Shaq's on the court, I think a lot of NBA officials will tell you that it's very difficult to apply them in a consistent manner when he's playing. Advantage/disadvantage becomes very difficult. Shaq's so big that he can (and does) absorb a LOT of contact without being disadvantaged. So do you let him get beat up just b/c he's not disadvantaged? Or do you call a couple of "ticky-tack" fouls to try and keep guys from being draped all over him for the whole game? Do you call an offensive foul when he backs down his defender, even tho the contact is relatively light? He's so big, he can just move them, without really pushing very hard. So is that a foul? The rules are there, but it's very hard to apply them fairly to both sides.

Chuck,



Regarding Shaq, you explained it well. Thanks!

[tomegun]

Her name is Violet Palmer and she is really good.

In college and high school we shouldn't run across the lane. Period. The NBA does what is best for their game at their level. They do officiate angles the best. When is the last time you saw a NBA game with off-ball calls? That is why they can run across the lane. It shouldn't be done in high school and college because we should officiate where we are at the moment meaning officiate the paint as you walk across instead of looking across to where you will end up. Some would say that the women's game doesn't have a history of tough post play and that is the reason the areas of coverage are the same as the NBA. Some will say they just want to be like the NBA. Time will tell if it will remain the same.

The game must be called different for Shaq or he would shoot 40 free throws a game.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I think she lasted 1 or 2 in developmental and only one at the NBA level. She just didn't have the "presence" that Violet has on the court.

No Jules, Jug is correct. Dee was in the bleague several years before she was fired. 4 sounds about right.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by tomegun
In college and high school we shouldn't run across the lane. Period.

Tommy, I'm just wondering what basis you have for this comment. Aren't there always exceptions? You say. . .

It shouldn't be done in high school and college because we should officiate where we are at the moment meaning officiate the paint as you walk across instead of looking across to where you will end up.

But this is also true in the NBA philosophy. The rotating Lead continues to officiate his/her primary until s/he is in position and ready to "accept" the play on the new ballside. That's why the slot is always the last official to rotate to the new position. The slot continues to officiate his/her entire half of the court until the new Lead has completed the rotation.

Obviously the Lead knows where the ball is; s/he has to know in order to rotate properly. But that doesn't mean that the Lead is officiating the ball there during the rotation.

So all that is to say. . . the pro and non-pro philosophies are very similar regarding Lead responsibilities during rotations. So why say that the non-pro official shouldn't run "period". I agree (and I said earlier) that it's not the norm and usually not necessary. But if the official feels it is necessary, is there really any reason to tell him/her not to?

When is the last time you saw a NBA game with off-ball calls? That is why they can run across the lane.

I don't understand this at all. Do you mean when is the last time you saw an NBA official make a call out of his/her primary? I agree that's very rare, and it's a good thing. But I don't understand what it has to do with running across the lane.

NCAA also would prefer to have fewer out-of-primary calls, I think. But the pro philosophy really emphasizes it. In my very, extremely, extraordinarily short pro career, my supervisor told me, "I would rather chew his a$$ for missing a call in his primary than chew yours for making the right call out of your primary."

Take it for what it's worth.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
That's why the slot is always the last official to rotate to the new position. The slot continues to officiate his/her entire half of the court until the new Lead has completed the rotation.

Chuck - replace slot with C, and isn't that how all 3-person rotations are supposed to work?