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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 12:41pm
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My regular season is over and I've taken some lower level weekend tournaments just for fun and a little extra cash. I was wonder what other officials thought of these tournaments. The more I work them, the more I see it being all about WINNING and I don't see players enjoying themselves. Instead of learning to have fun competing, they have parents and coaches screaming and yelling at every mistake. I understand that competition is part of life, and I love to compete, but I see these tournaments as a starting point for alot of the poor sportsmanship we see at other levels. Any thoughts?
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 01:28pm
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It is all in the way they are run. This year has been a real eye opener for me as I have put more time into the rec schedule of my association. I did a lot of games for a CYO league and a Baptist league. In both, games are started by prayers and or scripture reading. Fans, players, and coaches are addressed by an administrator of the league before the game. They are told that disrespect for the officials, and the players and coaches on the other team will not be tolerated. The administrator on duty will approach you after the game if you call a technical on player or coach and ask for an explanation. What blew me away was that in the CYO league I was asked if I thought that further action was warranted against a coach. Parents came up and apologized for his actions. He was just being a Howler Monkey. In the Baptist league I called a T in one game for reaching across the line and hitting the ball on a throw in. When I was reporting it the coach of the other team asked if I would explain what the player did wrong to both teams.
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 01:36pm
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Junker, I think we worked the same tournament. In eight games there were 3 Technicals for players and 3 Technicals for coaches. This stuff will mess up your game too. Very out of sync. This is why I do so little of it. I'm torn between, "I don't need the aggravation or the money" and "I could help out a friend who is assigning the games."
__________________
"referee the defense"
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 01:43pm
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I do use the T quite a bit more in these games. My question, though, is do you get the impression that the kids are having fun playing basketball? I see that it's more about winning and mom and dad than the kids. I do see some teams that handle themselves well, but there's always at least 1 coach that watches too much NCAA basketball and thinks he has to be a a@#hole to coach. I
I had a coach in one a couple of weeks ago (7th grade tournament) that was screaming about a foul call. I gave him more rope than I should have (he eventually hung himself), but in his rant he made the comment that it was a 7th grade game and I should have let the contact go. I responded that the fact it was a 7th grade game was the point of the technical...teach your players to play and don't try to work me. He didn't get it and I doubt if he ever will.
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 02:53pm
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It depends on the league. In my local rec league (grades 3 - 12), we make all parents (including coaches) sign a conduct statement. This makes it easier to take action against someone who is acting like a jerk. Last weekend, an official (who is a HS junior) ejected a parent from a gym for challenging another parent to a fight. The ejected parent is suspended for the season and may not attend games or practices. We also suspended a coach (3rd grade boys) for yelling at his players in a derogatory manner. We had a bunch of complaints from the parents on his team. He told one 3rd grader, "You're the biggest kid out there. You should be getting every rebound. You're not very good but at least you have some size. WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU?!?!?!?!" This was way out of line.
Use the T, make sure you know who game management is and don't hesitate to ask them to eject spectators for unacceptable behavior. If we don't do this, the kids will be even worse in the future.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 04:23pm
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The joke around here used to be that CYO stood for "Kill Your Opponent". They have done a lot to clean it up, and it now is a pretty great environment for players, coaches, and officials, at least below the in-season HS divisions which are still being brought back from the dark side.
Tournament teams, on the other hand are virtually always about winning, and feeding the coach's ego. The kids tend to be more talented, but the games look more like mini-NBA games than team games. Since these teams typically have a pretty short life, teamwork is put behind individual athleticism. A girl I was lucky enough to coach when she was in 3rd and 4th grade has been on many tournament teams since then. She is now a freshman in HS and while she is very good, she has not really learned a whole lot from those teams since her 5th grade year - the last year she had a coach who really cared about the kids. This girl was one of the best natural athletes I have ever seen, but she lost out on many years of learning the teamwork of the sport because of her exclusive play on tournament teams.
__________________
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! - Friedrich Nietzsche -
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 04:50pm
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I started in in Catholic league grades 6-8 and weekend youth rec ball, probably like most of you. I took every game I could get but since I now get a pretty full public school schedule I don't do many of those games anymore. I will do a few here and there but only to help out a friend who is assigning. Quite frankly, I no longer enjoy doing them and don't feel they are worth the money. It has been my experience, at least in my area, that the parents, coaches and players in the local Catholic league are the most ill behaved, obnoxious and unsporting people I have ever seen at a sporting event. The people in the youth rec leagues and weekend tournaments are a very close second. Add in the fact that you usually work multiple games in a day in these leagues and the aggravation adds up. Also, in most instances, the players are more well behaved than the coaches or fans. The nastiest, most insulting comments I have ever been subjected to have been from local Catholic league parents. The folks who run the program admit that fan behavior is appalling but nobody ever has the balls to do anything about it. I know that you aren't supposed to talk to the fans and in a regular public school game I never would because game management will handle a problematic fan for you. But nobody will in the Catholic league or weekend tournaments so I have on many occasions told a parent to shut it up or leave. Had one this season who was yelling "brick" every time a kid from the opposing team shot a free throw. I stopped play after the 2nd one and told him that he was a little old to be taunting a 7th grade kid. Looked like he felt about 2 inches tall after that. I guess the point is when they can no longer find anyone to officiate their games, maybe they will take a stand on behavior. Until then, I won't work them.
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 05:09pm
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Quote:
I've alse seen some pretty remarkable stuff, in a good way. One of the teams we played this year (MS) had a kid with Downs Sydrome on the team. She played 2 full quarters in all their games. Her teammates helped her out on what to do and where to go, and not one other team all season ran plays designed to go after her. They actually won several games, including one against us. EVERYBODY rooted for that team. By the way, this was from the same parish that 21 years ago had its softball coach suspended by the league for running up the score on its opponents. There are some little bits of daylight out there, I'm just sorry they are so rare.
__________________
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! - Friedrich Nietzsche -
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 05:21pm
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I'm in Iowa also. For the most part, the weekend stuff around here is handled by booster clubs. The actual schools do very little with it. I guess I brought up the subject because I look at things from a teacher's perspective and I don't see very much learning about the game happening. The things they learn are to complain, get yelled at by a coach who learns the game listening to announcers on tv, and that winning is the only reason for playing. Not to sound like an old man, but we learned to play by getting together with friends and PLAYING! You lose one game, it doesn't matter because you will play another. Not sure about a call, it's a do over. I just don't see that happening as much anymore. I recently read a book about the 77 British Open (Nickalus V Watson) and the cover really crystalized the way I look at sportsmanship. Both players went as hard as possible at each other, but as soon as Watson dropped his putt, Jack put his arm around him and they walked off the green. One of my favorite pictures in sports history.
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 05:38pm
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I find that the coaches of these teams are always the worst, and the parents are up there too. Almost all of the T's i give up execpt 5 have been from these types of tournaments. But I love reffing, and this time of year, this is all you can do, so i keep doing them.
They're great for trying to increase your tolerance for coaches. 
__________________
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups 
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 05:48pm
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Quote:
I didn't even consider the money. mick
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Mon Mar 01, 2004, 10:07pm
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As long as they keep score they will win at all costs.
I reffed 8th grade girls in our 'state' games in the summer (Prairie Rose Games). After one game two mothers (of the losing team, of course) came up to me and called me an '*******.' So much for the 'spirit' of participation and sportsmanship. I suspect if we let the kids play and left the parents home, that it would truly be more fun for all. One of the problems is the parents doing the coaching. They are all such 'experts' you know!
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