Another long time listener, first time caller

[Fifth And Goal]

Hey everyone,

First, let me say that this is a great forum. I've been lurking for a few weeks, and I have learned and laughed quite a bit.

I have been working youth rec ball on and off since I was a sophomore in high school. (I'm 26 now). The league I work for is very well run. There are over 900 teams in the league, with age ranges from kindergarten to high school.

I've often thought about joining our local association, but I have a job that demands long hours, and I would have a hard time filling a schedule on weeknights. I've always been able to get plenty of weekend games with my local rec, and the pay isn't bad. Plus, I like working with the younger kids who are still learning the fundamentals of the game.

Like I said, I've been working this rec league for several years, but I had a new situation last Saturday. I was working an 11-12th boys playoff game, and I was the lead on a breakaway. The player was about 6'1, and he dunked the ball and proceeded to hang on the rim. I was so surprised that he could dunk that before I could think about a T for hanging on the rim, he had let go. I decided to pass on a late whistle, and I spoke to him about it during the next time out.

Just goes to show that there are always new situations at every level.



[Edited by Fifth And Goal on Feb 23rd, 2004 at 11:26 AM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Fifth And Goal
Hey everyone,

First, let me say that this is a great forum. I've been lurking for a few weeks, and I have learned and laughed quite a bit.

I have been working youth rec ball on and off since I was a sophomore in high school. (I'm 26 now). The league I work for is very well run. There are over 900 teams in the league, with age ranges from kindergarten to high school.

I've often thought about joining our local association, but I have a job that demands long hours, and I would have a hard time filling a schedule on weeknights. I've always been able to get plenty of weekend games with my local rec, and the pay isn't bad. Plus, I like working with the younger kids who are still learning the fundamentals of the game.

Like I said, I've been working this rec league for several years, but I had a new situation last Saturday. I was working an 11-12th boys playoff game, and I was the lead on a breakaway. The player was about 6'1, and he dunked the ball and proceeded to hang on the rim. I was so surprised that he could dunk that before I could think about a T for hanging on the rim, he had let go. I decided to pass on a late whistle, and I spoke to him about it during the next time out.

Just goes to show that there are always new situations at every level.



[Edited by Fifth And Goal on Feb 23rd, 2004 at 11:26 AM]

Welcome to the board! With interesting posts like this, we will always be glad to hear from you!

[williebfree]

Glad you have found this forum and it is "entertaining"; hopefully, it is informative as well.

Some of the recent threads have been a reason to look for a "Fifth" and a new Goal!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Fifth And Goal
Hey everyone,

First, let me say that this is a great forum. I've been lurking for a few weeks, and I have learned and laughed quite a bit.

I have been working youth rec ball on and off since I was a sophomore in high school. (I'm 26 now). The league I work for is very well run. There are over 900 teams in the league, with age ranges from kindergarten to high school.

I've often thought about joining our local association, but I have a job that demands long hours, and I would have a hard time filling a schedule on weeknights. I've always been able to get plenty of weekend games with my local rec, and the pay isn't bad. Plus, I like working with the younger kids who are still learning the fundamentals of the game.

Like I said, I've been working this rec league for several years, but I had a new situation last Saturday. I was working an 11-12th boys playoff game, and I was the lead on a breakaway. The player was about 6'1, and he dunked the ball and proceeded to hang on the rim. I was so surprised that he could dunk that before I could think about a T for hanging on the rim, he had let go. I decided to pass on a late whistle, and I spoke to him about it during the next time out.

Just goes to show that there are always new situations at every level.



[Edited by Fifth And Goal on Feb 23rd, 2004 at 11:26 AM]

"Hanging on the rim" might be OK.

What did he do while hanging there that made you think T?

[footlocker]

Was the player taunting or showing off by hanging? Did he unecessarily pull the rim down for effect?

If he was just protecting himself so he would not get hurt, no problem. Play on.

[Fifth And Goal]

Just to clarify, in my judgement, he was hanging on the rim to show off. There were no defenders in the immediate vicinity, and his momentum did not cause his body to "swing" to a point where he might be in danger if he let go. However, I was caught so off guard by the dunk that by the time I thought to give the T, he had already let go and his opponents were almost ready to inbound the ball. (Bear in mind that in all my years of officiating rec ball, this was the first dunk I'd ever seen.) I did not think it was worth interrupting the flow of the game with a late whistle. (And yes, I know that late whistles are OK, so long as we're making and selling a good call.)

This particular player was a hothead, and later in the game, he did earn a T. He was fouled by an opponent and went down pretty hard. He got up and started to come toward his opponent, and my partner and I came running in with the Fox 40s at full blast. His teammates were trying to restrain him, but he started shoving them. That earned him a quick T, and fortunately, his coach sat him for the rest of the game.

[footlocker]

Sounds like great judgement and an understanding of what was happening in the game. Every official has decided too late on a T call at lease once. If they deny it they're lying. Good luck. Maybe you'll post interesting questions as well as the anecdotal stuff.

[Nevadaref]

You were Lead on this play, so it's not your call anyway. BI, GT, T's for grasping the ring or slapping the backboard are all calls that should come from the Trail in 2-man.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
You were Lead on this play, so it's not your call anyway. BI, GT, T's for grasping the ring or slapping the backboard are all calls that should come from the Trail in 2-man.

Not necessarily on a fastbreak --- which this was.

[footlocker]

Nevada, actually the Trail should observ goaltending, BI and rebounding. Nothing about the T for hanging being a Trail call. I checked the federation Officials Manual to be sure. (page 22).

Anyone can/should call that T when it arises. Bob Jenkins also correctly points out the fast break increases the burden of the call on the new Lead.

[Nevadaref]

Guys, while I agree that there are certain times that the Lead has to make the BI/GT call, this is not advice that I would give to a new official. Better to just let the Trail handle that stuff and allow him to focus on his primary responsibility--the contact.
For you sophisticated refs, it is my understanding that the reason the Lead sometimes has to make the BI/GT calls is that the Trail is not in position to do so. The main example is a quick steal and fast one-on-one the other way. In other words, the play happens so fast that the Trail can't get up court to cover it. Yet I do not think that hanging on the ring falls into this category, simply because by definition it is something that is a prolonged act. The Trail should be able to get into position for that. I would never call the T for hanging on the ring from the Lead. That's just me.

[BigJoe]

Nevada,

He said in his post that this was a Rec League game. For all we know, he could have a partner that never makes it across half court on a regular play, much less a fast break. I would say that he would be completely justified in making a call for hanging on the rim in this case.
Fifth, just something for your future games, I have very few plays "above the rim" where I live, but whenever I know I will have games where there are kids that can dunk, I always review BI, Goaltending, etc. in the rule and casebook prior to the game. Also, I pregame with my partner(s) as well.
Welcome to the board and don't worry, no question is a dumb question.