College Intramural Playoffs Begin Tonight

[HoosierBuckeye Ref]

First, thanks mick for helping me out. It is now clear.

Ok, let's see if I can remember what happened this week, I have been so busy with school.

Monday, I had three games scheduled. Last game was a forfit. The first game I had was a Men's I game (top division). Frat vs. Non-frat. During the playoffs, the frats bring out a ton of fans that line the court and of course, there is about four feet of room between each court. Anyhow, back and forth game the entire way. My partner and I called everything from the start and neither team learned to stop fouling and we called 36 fouls (we play two 20 minute halves, running clock). I threw one of the fans out because he was standing right behind our table and as I went to report a foul he is vocalizing, so everyone can hear, his displeasure in my call, in addition to waving his arms about. My roomate, who is a head official (they walk around, make sure everything runs ok and basically represent the people that sit in the office during the day), was standing right night to the table and I told my roomate, "Bill, get him out of here." Then the kid tried to hide in the crowd, my roomate took care of him.

It got to the point in this game where both captains were asking for us to call less fouls. Usually it is the other way. Later on, I call and travel, and as blue is walking backwards away from my while looking at me, I ask blue to give the ball three times, and he procedes to "lightly" kick the ball to me so it would just land in my hands at chest level (not a punt). Bam, T. Then later, white had a lay-up and blue went to block the shot on the way down. My first goaltending call. After the game, I found out the frat team tried protesting the game because white used an illegal player. This game had it all and either team could have won it.

Next game was uneventful.

On Tuesday, forfit my first game, second game I kept score, and the third game my partner told the captain's in the captains meeting, "Ok, it is the playoffs, we are going to call it early and often." I knew I would be in for it then.

Partner did not call a foul until at least 5 or 6 minutes into the game. Yes, maybe he did not see a foul till then, but the way these kids play, it is kind of hard to imagine.

We had three T's and an intentional in this game. The T went against A for jewelry. I am trail and A1 had a fastbreak, B1 intentionally fouls him by bearhugging him, both my partner and I blow our whistles for the foul, I go right up with the X. The second T my partner called cause this guy from B was yelling at me from his bench as I was reporting a time out. I think he drop the f-bomb to describe me, I did not hear it, but I thank my partner for having my back. So not only did B get two foul shots for the intentional, but then they got two more for the T during the dead ball.

I was trail and had a foul up between the arc and the foul line, I run in yelling "on the ground" waving off the shot (I am watching the college officials in how the sell the call, namely the Big Ten Officials). B1 then proceeds to start waving his arm in the same manner I did to call off the shot and I gave B2 a T because he was not going to show me up.

Game over, I run off the court towards the drinking fountains (we are in the middle of 10 courts) and (I am almost certain it was B1) trailed after me telling me "You are terrible...even though we won the game." I could not help but smile. And I know I am going to get some responses that one of the head officials should have been there to stop the kid, but it was not a concern, it has been taken care of. Ironically, after our games, we award sportsmanship ratings (0-4, 4 being "angels") and if you get a T, you automatically get no higher than a 3. So since they got 2 T's, we gave them a 2, and at least during the regular season you need to average a 3 rating to make it to the playoffs. Since this is the playoffs, I am not sure if they will be allowed to go to the next round or how that works.

Whew. Sorry again for a long post. I thought I did a decent job of game management, but still need to work on my reporting mechanics by using one hand.

One question I do have, what is the procedure if the ball passes through the rim from the bottom and was not intended as a shot, but was tipped around underneath as people try to gain possession after a rebound. Thanks!

[mick]

Originally posted by HoosierBuckeye Ref
The T went against A for jewelry.
This is usually just a no, no, not a T (1e. cannot play with jewelry); no penalty besides that.

I was trail and had a foul up between the arc and the foul line, I run in yelling "on the ground" waving off the shot (I am watching the college officials in how the sell the call, namely the Big Ten Officials). B1 then proceeds to start waving his arm in the same manner I did to call off the shot and I gave B2 a T because he was not going to show me up.

I thought I did a decent job of game management, but still need to work on my reporting mechanics by using one hand.
You may have just warned him and not made a big deal of it. But, I know, hadta be there.



One question I do have, what is the procedure if the ball passes through the rim from the bottom and was not intended as a shot, but was tipped around underneath as people try to gain possession after a rebound.

Violation on who made it go the wrong way. If you cannot tell who did it, go to the arrow.

sounds like you're havin' some fun.
mick

[BigGref]

I beleive that the same sportsmanship rating system applies in playoffs, 2 or less meet with league people (Japanese Mafia).

I usually make a point about this to the captains before the game; I remind them that they are our link to the team for sportsmanship reasons, and that if they get to certain level or lower (2) than they will likely not be playing the next game, Win or lose!

This does kind of sound threatening, but I think most the times the players don't understand the importance of sportsmanship, this hopefully drives home the point. Good Luck HoosierBuckey!

[BigGref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
[B]

Originally posted by HoosierBuckeye Ref
The T went against A for jewelry.
This is usually just a no, no, not a T (1e. cannot play with jewelry); no penalty besides that.

In our league, if we see jewelry on a player during the game we are required to give T's. One of very few deviations from a strictly FED game.

[HoosierBuckeye Ref]

I did two Sweet 16 games of the Men's 1 Division tonight. NFHS rules in effect.

I honestly cannot remember the two teams that played in the first game. All I remember is that my partner is one of our good refs in the program, but the only thing he does that bothers me is that he blows his whistle for all four lines. He does not make a call on them (unless of coures they are his two lines), but always blows his whistle, as though his partner was not going to call it out of bounds. This guy does a great job, but is there a nice way I could go about saying not to do this in a nice way?

The second game was a track meet. We had several moving screens or people plowing throw screens that we had fouls on away from the ball. My partner had a great "team" game in the sense that he had my back the whole time (my partner is from Ohio as well, so this should come as now surprise ), and this paid off later in the game. A had a made basket and A1 decides to shove B1 hard to the floor. I was lead and was looking at B as they started to inbound, and I had a player screening my out. My partner as trail called a technical on A1 and I just caught it as B1 was going to the ground. I majorly blew this one, but I thank my partner for having my back in this first situation. Is a technical the right call in this situation (live ball foul, player shoves other player to the ground). I am not asking for should we or should we not have called it (I know we should have), but the proper assignment of the foul for lack of a better explination.

Later in the game, I am lead, A2 charges, I call it, A3 not happy with call and drops an f-bomb in my direction along with the word "You" and probably the words "terrible and horrible mixed in there." I did not hear this as I am going to report and partner is switching, partner calls the T, then the kid is walking up the floor and keeps at it as both now partner and I are in front of the table, and we both right away just give him the boot. Partner again shows great poise in helping me out. A finished the game with four players with at least 6 minutes remaining in the second half (we ended with the league mercy rule, up 20 with 2:00 to play). B basically held on to the ball moving it around making an open 3 available.

Thanks again for the help on the first situation. I have 6 on the schedule for tomorrow night. I believe it's a mix of Men's Division 1, 2, and 3 Elite 8 games. The road to Assembly Hall continues. Championship Sunday this Sunday at Assembly hall with 8 divisions (Men's 1,2,3; Women's 1,2; Co-Ed 1,2; and Graduate) viying for the gold.

[BigGref]

Originally posted by HoosierBuckeye Ref
...Is a technical the right call in this situation (live ball foul, player shoves other player to the ground). I am not asking for should we or should we not have called it (I know we should have), but the proper assignment of the foul for lack of a better explination.

Darn Double Whistles!!!

I think that this is either a common foul (sounds unlikely in this stitch), an intentional foul (the player had no other reason for the contact except to just plain foul), Flagrant (if you judged that the contact was malicous in nature, or if you judged it as the prelude to a fight {see fighting definition in RB}) of course Flagrant being 1 and done your out a here! A technical is hard to call in this case since it was a live ball; not too many live ball T situations in FED.

First thing you do is going to be A VERY STRONG whistle and jump between the two as quick as possible, make sure it doesn't escalate...then you levy appropriate penalties.

Good luck the rest of the week, and hopefully "Championship Sunday!!"

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by HoosierBuckeye Ref
I have 6 on the schedule for tomorrow night. I believe it's a mix of Men's Division 1, 2, and 3 Elite 8 games. The road to Assembly Hall continues. Championship Sunday this Sunday at Assembly hall with 8 divisions (Men's 1,2,3; Women's 1,2; Co-Ed 1,2; and Graduate) viying for the gold.

Six games in one night! I thought the four we sometimes run was bad.

How long do your games run? What's the timeout situation? Stop-clock or running clock? Do you usually ref all 6 games, or do you sit some out at clock/book?

[tomegun]

Hoosierbuckeye (I'm from Indiana and it is just wrong to use these two together) can you hear me now?

Can you hear me now?

Can you hear me now?

There is a difference between paying attention (don't pay attention to fans, parents, etc.), seeing (you must see plays with the proper angle) and hearing (you must hear and then you can choose to not pay attention). Your two posts about hearing what a player said leads me to ask you a question.

Can you hear me now?

Good luck and do good! Where in Ohio are you from?

Indiana, oh Indiana.............Indiana......

[HoosierBuckeye Ref]

Six games is really two shifts (first shift 3, second 3). But I forgot that since we eliminate half of the teams everynight, I actually have five games tonight. But usually of the 3 you are assigned for your shift, you ref 2, score 1. I do not care to score, I usually tell the kids I work with that I will run for all 3 games. Whereas other people are generally the other way, they want to score more than ref. But the program wants us to ref 2, score 1.

We play two 20 minute halves w/ running clock except for under a minute (the clock stops on every whistle). Under a minute, every foul is automatically two shots (we do not keep a team foul total during the game). Each team gets 3 time outs per game. I usually only give them 30 seconds, and even then, they are back on the floor before you tell them.



tomegun -

I can hear you. I think I understand what you are trying to convey. I have done so many games that words from the crowd, coaches, and players go in one ear and out the other. It really does not faze me. But when one of my peers feels as though it is open season on dropping every f-bomb in my direction and he has free reign to do so, I am going to do something about it. For example, you get a lot of casual swearing (what average college kid doesn't swear) on missed shots or missed open lay-ups (which begs the question, "Can I get a lay-up?" ). This stuff I ignore even though if you were to call it by the NFHS book, we would be shooting FTs all night, and it is a college intramural league and you just learn to deal with it. Maybe I am confused on your help. It might be that the Verizon commericial eats at me everytime I see it on TV. For now, I just want to keep my location in Ohio as Ohio. Nothing personal.

Thanks for the help!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by HoosierBuckeye Ref
A had a made basket and A1 decides to shove B1 hard to the floor. I was lead and was looking at B as they started to inbound, and I had a player screening my out. My partner as trail called a technical on A1 and I just caught it as B1 was going to the ground. I majorly blew this one, but I thank my partner for having my back in this first situation. Is a technical the right call in this situation (live ball foul, player shoves other player to the ground).

Depending on the timing, I believe the T was the right call. Once the ball enters the basket, it is dead until it is at the disposal of the thrower for the throw-in. So you have an intentional foul during a dead ball. That's a T. That is assuming that the foul occurred after the basket and before the throw-in. Otherwise you've got some kind of live-ball foul (common, intentional, flagrant).

FED
4-19-5 A technical foul is:
c. An intentional or flagrant contact foul while the ball is dead, except a foul by an airborne shooter.

6-7 The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
1 ... A goal, as in 5-1, is made.

6-1-2 The ball becomes live when:
b. On a throw-in, it is at the disposal of the thrower.

[HoosierBuckeye Ref]

Thanks Saddle. I looked your references up in the book and your explination with the dead ball situation makes me know that we made the correct call.

However, can you please elaborate more on the flagrant foul (maybe rule citation)? This is an area I am still confused on. Thanks for the help, it is appreciated.

Tuesday night I had a Woman's I game, elite eight stage. I generally do not like doing these games, but it was a good game as at this point in the playoffs, I would hope the bracket could produce a good Women's intramural game. Some of the women's teams (I & II) are atrocious. None-the-less, it was a good game. At halftime, one of the females watching her sorority play in the women's I game (I knew this person because she lived on my floor last year) I was officiating came up to me and said "You would make a good ref" in the most sincere tone. I guess you kind of have to know this person, I found it funny because I thought, "What am I doing now that I am not a good ref?" Or "Do you realize that I am reffing now?" Needless to say, it was random.

Anyhow, I had a Men's I game with my new buddy from Ohio and it was a great game. Our non-verbal communication was there, and we generally had great command of the game. Once again, a great officiated game by this kid.

The last game I did, another Men's I, my partner who I have always thought of a good ref for the program. However, with another track meet in the game, he let them play too much where they were fouling way too much at the end and we both could not do enough at the end to curtail it. I tried my best to call it early, but there was only so much I could do. Overall, it was a great night. The last game was my off game, but it happens. Next time I will communicate better about calling it early...unlike a week or so ago I told my partner that I would do that and right away in the captain's meeting he tells the captains that we will call it early and often and the kid did not blow his whistle for a foul 6 minutes into the game. I wanted to die when he said that.

I got my assignment for Championship Sunday at Assembly Hall. I was original scheduled w/ my new found friend from Ohio and another kid that I respect (we run 3-man for the Championship games since the floor is obviousl 94 feet, whereas the Rec Center courts are in the 70s [read: very short]). However, my buddy has to go home this weekend so I cannot ref with him, so they switched some things up and I am reffing the Men's III game. I am excited for the chance to officiate on Branch McCraken Court once again. . . . . Even though Dick Vitale will tell you it should be named Robert Montgomery Knight Court at Assembly Hall.


At the IU Men's game Wednesday against Michigan, one of the officials showed up late (he will remain nameless, you can easily find out who it was) and I was shocked it was him. The refs started with 2 and even re-did the jump. You could tell there were probably some nerves as it has probably been awhile since they have used 2-man mechanics, plus having to run up and down a 94-foot floor probably did not help. I know that any type of tardiness at this level is generally not acceptable, no matter what the reason. Just out of curiosity, do you lose a game assignment for something like this? Thanks.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by HoosierBuckeye Ref
... can you please elaborate more on the flagrant foul (maybe rule citation)? This is an area I am still confused on. ..

4-19-4: A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent or savage nature, or a technical noncontact foul which displays unacceptable conduct. It may or may not be intentional. If personal, it involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking, and kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or noncontact at any time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct. Fighting is a flagrant act.

[tomegun]

Hoosierbuckeye, all I was trying to say is sometimes you have to be aware of what is happening on the court. Your partner had your back but the "I didn't hear it" and "I didn't see it" will not cut it all the time.

[HoosierBuckeye Ref]

Originally posted by tomegun
Hoosierbuckeye, all I was trying to say is sometimes you have to be aware of what is happening on the court. Your partner had your back but the "I didn't hear it" and "I didn't see it" will not cut it all the time.

I was just confused on what you were saying. I know that neither of those statements would cut it. It was just that in that situation I was not near the kid who my partner helped me out on. I do need to work on pay a little bit more attention to the BIG picture though. I appreciate your help.

Also, thanks for the research in the book about flagrant fouls.