Bouncing the Ball Hard - a Tech?

Cornellref · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2004, 08:57pm

JV Boys last night. B1 fouls right near the table and my partner calls him for it and turns to report. Then B1 takes the ball and spikes it to the court pretty violently. Given that this all occurred right near the table area in front of the whole crowd, I felt he was not just taking out frustration but showing up my partner. I whack him and get no complaints from any coaches or fans. Anyway, I was wondering if there is some limit you experienced guys use when players spike balls on the court after a call goes against them. Could a warning be given instead? Thoughts and opinions welcome - Thanx. **Cornellref**

Mark Padgett · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2004, 10:00pm

Sounds to me like you made the right call. Some technicals are obvious to call. Some are very subjective. Bouncing the ball in the manner you described is one of those subjective ones. My rule of thumb is that if the player is reacting to the call, it's a T. If he made a bad play and is mad at himself, then I don't call it unless he (for instance) throws the ball down the court. Even then, I may just make him go get it and avoid the T.

How do you make the tough call on something that's purely subjective? Simple - it's called "being an official".

cmathews · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 01:13am

depending on if the kid bounces and catches versus just bounces the ball...one of our guys has a good rule of thumb in the bounce without catch category....if he bounces it up into the air....if it comes back down, it is a T....

Board28'er · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 01:00pm

An official I worked with once had the same situation that you just mentioned about not catching the ball. A player got his 4th and tossed the ball in the air in frustration. My partner, who called the foul, told him if the ball hits the floor it's a T. Needless to say, he caught it. I agree that if the player is mad at himself, I usually let it go, unless he tosses it down court, spikes it 20' in the air, etc... However, if he does this in anger because he just got a foul, and he is showing us up, WHACK!!!!!

Luv4Asian8 · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 04:13pm

Yup. Same thing happened to my partner, only difference was that the player spiked the ball AT my partner. Partner did a lil dodgeball (wow...remember that game?..hehe) and he T'ed him, no objectivity/subjectivity about it. No probs the rest of the night.

just my input.....

Jurassic Referee · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 04:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Luv4Asian8
Same thing happened to my partner, only difference was that the player spiked the ball AT my partner. Partner did a lil dodgeball (wow...remember that game?..hehe) and he T'ed him, no objectivity/subjectivity about it.

Threw the ball at an official? That is always a flagrant foul.

davidw · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 04:56pm

Ditto on the flagrant for throwing at the official!

stan-MI · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 05:09pm

Had a partner that T'd a kid in the final minute of a tie game for bouncing and catching (on the way up). Bad decision. The kid wasn't showing anybody up, just a little frustrated. Needless to say, heard an earful from our supervisor.

mplagrow · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 10:12pm

I heard a ref once say, if it bounces over the kids head, automatic T! I don't agree with that. Last week had a kid spike the ball because he lost his balance and stepped OOB. He slammed the ball down, but I could tell he was just frustrated with himself.

I caught him at halftime and said, "When you spike that ball, just about everybody in the gym wants me to T you up!" He apologized, and we moved on with life.

MOFFICIAL · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 10:15pm

My situation was my partner called a foul on B1 holding A1 dribbling down the court and A1 then bounced ball hard to the floor-I held on the "T" because it wasn't in objection to the call or showing up crew. Later same player A1 in backcourt closing in on 10 second call I hear and see the A team coach call for a timeout. I turn and blow whistle-to grant the A team timeout and hear the crowd kind of get loud I turn and ball is no where in sight then I see it land. Coach for B says that's a "T" I said I didn't see what happened. I had turned to grant TO. My partners said they didn't see the play either. In retrospect I should have had a word with A1 after the first incident-but not seeing the second slam I wouldn't have called it either. If my partners would have seen the second slam and told me about it would it have been inappropriate to give a delayed "T"?

mplagrow · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2004, 10:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MOFFICIAL
My situation was my partner called a foul on B1 holding A1 dribbling down the court and A1 then bounced ball hard to the floor-I held on the "T" because it wasn't in objection to the call or showing up crew. Later same player A1 in backcourt closing in on 10 second call I hear and see the A team coach call for a timeout. I turn and blow whistle-to grant the A team timeout and hear the crowd kind of get loud I turn and ball is no where in sight then I see it land. Coach for B says that's a "T" I said I didn't see what happened. I had turned to grant TO. My partners said they didn't see the play either. In retrospect I should have had a word with A1 after the first incident-but not seeing the second slam I wouldn't have called it either. If my partners would have seen the second slam and told me about it would it have been inappropriate to give a delayed "T"?

If your partners saw it and didn't throw down a T, I wouldn't jump on it if I were you. I think that would put you in a bad position. But I am all for talking to the player and asking them not to put me in a position where I have to decide to make that call or not!!!!

TXMATTHEW05 · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 11, 2004, 12:32am

Technical, always. I don't see why not. It's unsporting...they can be frusterated at themselves, but does that give them an excuse to slam a ball down? It delays game, could show that they are showing up the official...it's just something that I've always viewed as a technical foul. I expect better from players.

BTW - ditto on throwing AT official - flagrant!

SCBroncos · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 11, 2004, 07:44pm

How can throwing the ball at the official be a flagrant foul? Don't you have to foul someone to make a foul flagrant? Sure, we could eject the player for unsporstmanlike conduct, but I don't see how it is a flagrant foul.

As for this situation, I had a similar one last night. My partner called a foul and the player disagreed and spiked the ball into the air right in front of me. The only twist here is that my partner blew the call - it was not a foul. I assessed the 'T' anyway because players need to learn how to handle their emotions - even when they might be right.

ChuckElias · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 11, 2004, 07:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SCBroncos
How can throwing the ball at the official be a flagrant foul? Don't you have to foul someone to make a foul flagrant? Sure, we could eject the player for unsporstmanlike conduct, but I don't see how it is a flagrant foul.

It's flagrantly unsportsmanlike. How could you eject the player (on a single unsportsmanlike foul) unless you judged the act to be flagrant?

If you're ejecting for a single act, then by definition (FED), it's a flagrant foul.

mplagrow · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 11, 2004, 08:23pm

Contact is not necessary for a flagrant foul. A technical can be deemed flagrant.

As for the other issue, I recall chuckling at an NBA game last year where the ref was calling on offensive foul (don't remember which teams) and the defender thought it was on him. He got so agitated, he didn't wait to hear the call, and picked up a T--all for a call on his opponent!