The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 02:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 233
Here are a couple of links updating that BYU vs UNM game situation a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Feb/02062...rts/136129.asp

http://themwc.ocsn.com/sports/m-bask...020504aae.html


Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 04:45pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Looks to me like the T was still warranted.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 07:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,557
Well from the article it sounds like the player got up off the bench because he thought there was a timeout. Not really sure tho, its hard to tell without seeing it.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 08:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 521
From MWC.com (The second link)

"The inadvertent whistle apparently prompted BYU student-athlete Mark Bigelow to enter the playing floor from the bench area and interfere with an opposing playerthus resulting in a technical foul against the Cougars. Had the inadvertent whistle been immediately recognized, play would have been halted and Mr. Bigelow's action would not have prompted a technical foul. "

Am I missing something here? Biglow left the bench area whistle or not and went onto the court and "interfered" with an opposing player. So if there is a timeout or a whistle to stop play it is OK for a player on team A's bench to come onto the court and confront a player on team B in any way?

Where is my rules book?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 10:50pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
He heard a whistle, not a timeout call by the ref. A whistle could be any number of things (violation, foul, inadvertent). A whistle does not mean a free for all for the bench to rush onto the court. Whistle or not, players can't come onto the court until after the TO is reported. The T is still warranted.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 10:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,988
I agree, the T was warranted. I can't believe the official got suspended for this.
__________________
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 07, 2004, 03:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cheyenne, wyoming
Posts: 1,493
Guys, did any of you see the play?? Originally when I watched it on ESPN I thought woooo hooo a BYU tech..(I am from Wyoming and deplore BYU). However, he didn't confront the UNM player he jubilantly jumped around and the UNM player really didn't have to do much more than a crossover dribble to avoid him. I am a Lonnie Dixon fan, if it is as it sounds, he had an inadvertant whistle, he should have stepped up and admitted it. The T was really unwarranted in this situtation, and it quite possibly decided the game. I would really like to hear Mr. Dixon's side of the story, but until we do....well maybe the suspension is harsh, but the tech was very unwarranted, upon further review....
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 07, 2004, 08:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,088
Quote:
Originally posted by cmathews
Guys, did any of you see the play?? Originally when I watched it on ESPN I thought woooo hooo a BYU tech..(I am from Wyoming and deplore BYU). However, he didn't confront the UNM player he jubilantly jumped around and the UNM player really didn't have to do much more than a crossover dribble to avoid him. I am a Lonnie Dixon fan, if it is as it sounds, he had an inadvertant whistle, he should have stepped up and admitted it. The T was really unwarranted in this situtation, and it quite possibly decided the game. I would really like to hear Mr. Dixon's side of the story, but until we do....well maybe the suspension is harsh, but the tech was very unwarranted, upon further review....
As described, that's a T.

But, if there was no effect on the play, there wouldn't have been a T, by NCAA interp.

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 07, 2004, 10:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cheyenne, wyoming
Posts: 1,493
Bob, I agree that originally it appeared that there was an effect on the play...however in retrospect, it was Dixon's whistle that had the most effect on the play...so I would think there shouldn't have been a T...just an IW...
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 07, 2004, 10:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 547
This play calls for exactly what good officials have which, by the way, is not in the rule book........judgement and common sense. Anyone who saw the play can easily see that the inadvertant whistle is what caused the BYU player to leave the bench. The whistle occured during a point of the game when most teams call time-out. There wasn't anything even close to a foul - so that wasn't why the whistle sounded.

An official working at the High D-1 level should have easily resolved this situation w/out a T. Inadvertant whistle prompted player to leave bench. Use judgement and common sense to stop the play, give the ball back to UNM - without penalty to BYU - and continue. It was the correct thing to do. The UNM coach wouldn't want a T on his player if the role is reversed!

I wouldn't want anyone who says this is an automatic T on my crew.
__________________
Jeff Pearson
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 07, 2004, 01:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 566
I don't think he was suspended because of the inadvertant whistle or calling the T. I think the suspension was because this official kept denying that he blew his whistle and didn't admit anything till proven wrong. If he would have had the balls to admit during that game that he had an inadvertant whistle and then handled it there, no matter what he did he would probably still be working.
__________________
"Booze, broads, and bullsh!t. If you got all that, what else do you need?"."
- Harry Caray -
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 07, 2004, 02:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally posted by jeffpea
This play calls for exactly what good officials have which, by the way, is not in the rule book........judgement and common sense. Anyone who saw the play can easily see that the inadvertant whistle is what caused the BYU player to leave the bench. The whistle occured during a point of the game when most teams call time-out. There wasn't anything even close to a foul - so that wasn't why the whistle sounded.

An official working at the High D-1 level should have easily resolved this situation w/out a T. Inadvertant whistle prompted player to leave bench. Use judgement and common sense to stop the play, give the ball back to UNM - without penalty to BYU - and continue. It was the correct thing to do. The UNM coach wouldn't want a T on his player if the role is reversed!

I wouldn't want anyone who says this is an automatic T on my crew.
ditto. I'm not sure I could have said it better.
__________________
foulbuster
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 07, 2004, 05:33pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally posted by gsf23
I don't think he was suspended because of the inadvertant whistle or calling the T. I think the suspension was because this official kept denying that he blew his whistle and didn't admit anything till proven wrong. If he would have had the balls to admit during that game that he had an inadvertant whistle and then handled it there, no matter what he did he would probably still be working.
I'll agree with this. I also want to add again that I haven't seen the play, so I can't really comment on whether the T was warranted. I'm only saying that the conclusion that there was an inadvertent whistle doesn't mean the T wasn't warranted. It may be that it wasn't warranted, for other reasons combined with the IW, but the IW alone doesn't excuse the player from running onto the court.

Adam
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 07, 2004, 06:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 14
Lonnie Dixon was suspended, for setting aside the rules and doing his own thing. When BYU made that tying basket, a player from New Mexico asked Dixon for a timeout. That's why you heard a whistle from Lonnie Dixon. Lonnie then realized that New Mexico was out of timeouts, and from what was said, he supposedly decided to play on like he hadn't blown his whistle. He finally openly admitted this to the Mountain West Conference Commissioner, and that was why he was suspended. BYU should have been shooting the technical free throws, resulting from the excessive time out being called, and then had the ensuing throw in. Just goes to show you; "Get the game right!"

[Edited by bcooley66 on Feb 7th, 2004 at 05:13 PM]
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 08, 2004, 03:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally posted by bcooley66
Lonnie Dixon was suspended, for setting aside the rules and doing his own thing. When BYU made that tying basket, a player from New Mexico asked Dixon for a timeout. That's why you heard a whistle from Lonnie Dixon. Lonnie then realized that New Mexico was out of timeouts, and from what was said, he supposedly decided to play on like he hadn't blown his whistle. He finally openly admitted this to the Mountain West Conference Commissioner, and that was why he was suspended. BYU should have been shooting the technical free throws, resulting from the excessive time out being called, and then had the ensuing throw in. Just goes to show you; "Get the game right!"

[Edited by bcooley66 on Feb 7th, 2004 at 05:13 PM]
bcooley,

I'm curious, where did you get your info? When I first read about this situation (I orig. posted this story with the title: "Was he guessing on a time out by UNM?") I was guessing that that is what he was doing. That is, anticipating/guessing on a time out by UNM. If what you say is true, then the whistle was tied to a time out situation--just not quite the one I was guessing at. And seems to remove the "inadvertant" part from our previous description.

If that is the way it came down, seems to me he really screwed up. I didn't see the game. Did the officials have any dead ball time prior to end of game to review # of time outs remaining etc.?

Guess when you make the "big bucks" you also pay on the other end when you mess up, huh? Which is a whole other topic. We all know coaches are held to some pretty high expectations and live and die by there won/lost records. For a "L" to be attched to Coach Cleveland's record for a loss for these circumstances, I think requires a high degree of accountability on the part of the officials as well--which is what seems to have happened here.

From the quotes of Cleveland, regarding this whole situation, I am impressed. Can you imagine the reactions of many other coaches--or at least one with the initials B.K. now coaching in the great state of Texas?

We know the officials got together during (right after) the situation with the BYU player off the bench after his whistle. Sounds like he painted himself into a corner with his decision to ignore the requested time out after first whistling play dead for it. Now he's forced himself and his partners into another whole set of decisions regarding the BYU player.

Indeed, "Get the game right!"

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1