Overtime or Not.

Tim Roden · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 11:48am

I went to a college game after my JH games last night and I want some opinions on what I saw. It was a great game. He home team was behind by 15 after the first half and was able to bring it back and get ahead by 6 with a minute left. The visitors hit a 3 point shot a 2 point and a free throw down the stretch to tie the game. The home team had the ball with with a couple clicks on the clock when they shot and miss get the rebound and with the clock going down shoots a shot and gets fouled. The officials decide to ignore the foul and have overtime. A hand went up with the horn from the lead and not a fist. I was sitting next to my partner on a game from two nights ago who also calls college. He said that they did the right thing by letting the players decide the game on the court with overtime. The home coach and I disagreed with that opionion and thought we should shoot the free throws and decide the game and go home. The home team did lose after throwing the tantrum which almost drew the Technical foul. Obviously with a JH game we are shooting the free throws but at what level do you do what these officials did?

zebraman · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 12:19pm

You don't know that they ignored a foul because of time remaining. Maybe they just didn't think it was a foul.

A foul is a foul, regardless of the time left on the clock. Not all contact is a foul.

Z

eyezen · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 12:20pm

I'm pretty new to refereeing (first year as registered official in MO) and to this forum.

But I just don't understand this philosophy.

"Let the players decide the outcome."

Well they are, in my opinion. Player B "decides" to foul player A. Player A will "decide" the outcome by making or missing the free throws.

JMHO

cmathews · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 01:13pm

How about them thinking the foul occured after the horn sounded, or maybe the shot didn't get released before the horn sounded???

NCAAREF · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 01:23pm

I think you answered your own question. You said the player was fouled, but if the official raised an "open hand" then there was no foul. He or she was signaling end of period. Being an official yourself, you know how easy it is to sit in the bleachers and call the game versus actually being on the floor. Your fellow official did not have a foul. As far as the statement someone else made about "a foul is a foul is a foul" regardless of when it occurs and disagreeing with the philosophy of letting the players decide the outcome, I was of the same opinion when I came up. It took me many years to finally understand what all the vets were telling me. Now I am one of the vets and I try to pass along the same philosphy to our younger officials.

Bart Tyson · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 01:25pm

Or maybe the official pass on the contact, because of what the offensive player did prior to what the defender did. If I pass on a little push by the off. and the def. makes a little contact, I probably will pass on the 2nd contact.
We have to ref the whole play, not just the moment. I saw a game last night where the def. played agressive and bumped the ball handler and caused him to travel, just a little travel so the official pass on the travel. There was no advantage either way, this was in the back court with just those two players.

zebraman · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 01:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by NCAAREF
Now I am one of the vets and I try to pass along the same philosphy to our younger officials.

Being a vet myself, please explain that philosophy.

Z

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by cmathews
How about them thinking the foul occured after the horn sounded, or maybe the shot didn't get released before the horn sounded???

You are correct about the foul occuring after the horn, but if a foul occurs before the horn but the shoot is not released until after the horn, the foul still happened and no matter whether the field goal attempt went in or not, it does not count that the fouled player will get two free throw attempts with no time on the clock and nobody on the free throw lane.

cmathews · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 06, 2004, 01:34pm

Mark,
Yep I realized that after I posted it....it just didn't type out the same way I said it in my mind LOL

Tim Roden · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 07, 2004, 02:43am

I see most of you agree with me. Since I probably won't get a post from the ref of the game I will give you this. He could have been thinking that the shot was taken from a position that a shot could not have been made so he wouldn't put him on the line to win the game. I know that happened in an NCAA playoff. Or he could have been thinking the shot was after the horn. He did confer with the C after the the horn. But that was not on our mind discussing it amoung ourselves in the stands. What we were discussing was not calling a foul so that we could have overtime. I know there wasn't many happy campers leaving the building that night.

Bart Tyson · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 07, 2004, 12:50pm

Quote:

He could have been thinking that the shot was taken from a position that a shot could not have been made so he wouldn't put him on the line to win the game. [/B]

I'm not going to bail out a player who is out of control or is just heaving a ball up from a position where he has little or no chance of scoring just to beat the clock. This is the same way I'll call the whole game, not just the end.

Quote:

What we were discussing was not calling a foul so that we could have overtime. [/B]

Overtime shouldn't have anything to do with calling a foul. However, in a tie game, on last sec. shot, its going to have to be obvious to everyone.