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Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 02:26am
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Blue is ahead by, like 25 or so, White 23 has the ball, and is trying to get into the key. Blue 40 steps over and has a good, solid shove. I'm at Trail and call the foul. Turn to report to the table, and hear another whistle behind me along with several raised voices, and some oooohs and aaaahs. I turn quickly to see Blue 32 with her arms wrapped around Blue 40 and my partner with his hands up above his head in an X. Yea, it was the wrong signal, but everyone seemed to know what he meant. White 23 was on the floor, with a couple of her teammates trying to keep her from retaliating. We got the fouls (two of them on Blue 40, the latter one flagrant) reported, and then the confusion started. Table couldn't seem to get it straight that we were dq'ing Blue 40 with only 4 fouls. We finally got that straightened out..

.. and then couldn't find the right shooter for the first foul. Seems coach had subbed her out. I went to the bench, and told her that we needed 23 back out to shoot the fts. Coach said she needed some time to cool off and that she wanted the sub to shoot. I said we couldn't do that, and she said, okay she's injured and I need her out. I hemmed and hawed a little, and she said, "Look you didn't give her a foul but she is pulled from the game. She's way too hot under the collar. She's not playing again tonight." I capitulated and let the sub shoot.

And then I really got messed up, and I can't believe I missed this. I was thinking the fouls had both been personal, and I was going to require the same girl to shoot all the fts. Partner, who wasn't real solid on a lot of the details, at least got this one right and straightened me out. Second foul had to be a T, since the ball was dead. D'oh!

So the White coach thought we should have dq'd her player, and surprise of all surprises, Blue coach had an opinion on that subject too! I have no idea if they're right because I didn't see it. I asked my partner later why he didn't, and he said she pushed, yes, but only as a sort of protective reflex (He didn't SAY that, but that was what he meant). Blue definitely had more attitude that White.

Now all I need to know is whether I'm required to file a report for JV. I'm not going to call and ask at 11:00 pm!
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 09:21am
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Originally posted by rainmaker
Now all I need to know is whether I'm required to file a report for JV. I'm not going to call and ask at 11:00 pm!
Better to file a report that's not required than to not file a report that is required.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 09:36am
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In Oklahoma a report is required for all ejections at all levels where the teams are members of the OSSAA.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 09:45am
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In MN our form has level of competition on the form so I would say we would have to file for a JV game. I am just keeping my fingers crossed that I never have a fight in one of my games.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2004, 11:00am
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Talking

Sounds like you could realistically have yet another technical in this situation. How did White 23 get on the bench if neither you nor your partner brought in subs? D'oh!
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Old Mon Feb 09, 2004, 02:06am
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
I turn quickly to see Blue 32 with her arms wrapped around Blue 40 and my partner with his hands up above his head in an X. Yea, it was the wrong signal, but everyone seemed to know what he meant.
Wow! Sounds like a tough situation. You and your partner seemed to have handled it well. As for not seeing the technical, I would advise you that in the future, if you have a particularly hard foul to stay with the players for an extra moment and once they have separated then go report.

Also, since this was intentional contact during a dead ball, it is an intentional technical foul. To me that means that your partner can give either the intentional signal or the T or both on the court as long as it is administered as a technical foul.
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Old Mon Feb 09, 2004, 06:19am
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Nevadaref, where have you been?
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Old Mon Feb 09, 2004, 06:26am
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I blew out the monitor on my home computer and it took me about a month to get another one. So I haven't been posting for a while. All is well here, hope the same is true for you.
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Old Mon Feb 09, 2004, 07:10am
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Quote:
Originally posted by TriggerMN
Sounds like you could realistically have yet another technical in this situation. How did White 23 get on the bench if neither you nor your partner brought in subs? D'oh!
IMHO, a very bad idea, the situation was getting out of hand and you don’t need to throw gasoline on the fire.

There comes a point in a situation were judgement must take the upper hand in a situation. Just as in the case of going along with the coach on not having the girl shoot.

The unasked question until now, what level was this?
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Old Mon Feb 09, 2004, 04:04pm
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Sounds a lot like my first fight. I was Lead, call a foul and go to report. As I'm reporting, I hear a fight break out behind me. I turn to see what's going on and what my partner's doing only to find my partner chasing the ball as it rolled onto the next court. After breaking up the fight, I asked him what happened and of course he had no idea. So now when I teach officials, I make it a point to tell them that story and to forget about the [email protected]*# ball!
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Old Mon Feb 09, 2004, 10:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by RecRef
Quote:
Originally posted by TriggerMN
Sounds like you could realistically have yet another technical in this situation. How did White 23 get on the bench if neither you nor your partner brought in subs? D'oh!
IMHO, a very bad idea, the situation was getting out of hand and you don’t need to throw gasoline on the fire.

There comes a point in a situation were judgement must take the upper hand in a situation. Just as in the case of going along with the coach on not having the girl shoot.

The unasked question until now, what level was this?
JV girls. Trigger it turned out okay, but I think in general it might be less inflammatory to give two techs, one to each team, especially if both girls do some of the shoving. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean about gasoline.

RecRef, definitely D'oh! about the sub.
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Old Tue Feb 10, 2004, 04:47pm
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2 thoughts & question for Rainmaker


I'm with RecRef on this one--regarding not throwing fire on the gasoline.

First off, I want to get everyone focused back on the game as quick as possible--not the unfortunate dead ball situation we have found ourselves in. I'm ignoring the sub. problem as well and taking care of the issues directly surrounding the fight and qetting the ball back in play as soon as possible.

Second, I agree with you Rainmaker, It sounds like there should have been two Ts, not one. It usually 'takes two to tango'. I recognize that is not always the case, but in my experiance it seems that it usually is.

One other question Rainmaker: Someone else referenced this and I'm wondering what you had for mechanics--did you pause long enough at the point of foul to make sure everyone was under control before leaving to report the foul? Was there any hint from the players in question that there was tension etc.?
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Old Tue Feb 10, 2004, 05:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by davidw

Second, I agree with you Rainmaker, It sounds like there should have been two Ts, not one. It usually 'takes two to tango'. I recognize that is not always the case, but in my experiance it seems that it usually is.

Can't agree. You had a definite 'instigator" in this incident, plus another player who was either defending herself or just reacting to a flagrant act that was committed on her. The penalties shouldn't be equal, when it comes to FT's. I think that the player who starts the crap should have to clearly pay for it. My experience is that there usually one player who instigates these types of situations.
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