Let's turn the table...
 

Bballcoach,

What if every fan, parent, official etc. made non-stop comments about your coaching abilities, decision making skills, and play calling that you make in a game. How would you feel if you knew that you were bustin your *** out there to coach these kids and these comments were being made?

Officials don't go on to the floor looking to be bad asses or jerks. We just want to make sure that the game is played in a fair manner. Try playing a game against your teams biggest rival with no officials and let me know how it turns out....

There are many times in a game I would love to turn to a coach and say... "Aw come on coach, when is your team gonna stop turning over the ball" or "You better start playing man D" etc.... But I don't beacuse you are the coach and I am the official. I just want to do my job, improve my skills, learn a little something for next time and leave.

Why do you feel that just because your a coach your knowledge of the rules and how the game should be officiated are far superior to those that have dedicated a significant amount of time and effort to become officials? How do you know if an official "missed a call" or made a wrong call? Could you pass the 100 question test we take every year? I got a perfect score BTW.

It really sounds like your the one on a power trip and don't like having to listen to the officials.

By the way bballcoach... What is "over the back"??? As a coach I am sure you can define this because I can't find it anywhere. (get my point???)

Basketball is a very fast paced very emotional game. Officiating the game is very subjective; as is obvious from the thousands of threads and thousands of posts in this forum. If it was cut and dried there wouldn't be a need for boards such as this. Unfortunatley, coaches and fans tend to see things through one way glasses. When things are not going their way they get upset and eventually disrespectful. How often do you here a coach,or fan, complain about a "wrong" call against the other team.

Once the heat of battle is over the disrespect subsides. Many time I am ask by coaches and fans about rules, my opinions, etc... concerning the game of basketball. It's the heat of the moment and our competitive nature that leads to brief moments of disrespect by coaches, fans, and yes, we officials.

What part of that post shows that he is looking for a fight? Looks to me like he came in here to ask an honest question and get a discussion going. He even asked you guys if it was an alright question to ask.

The first post he gets in reply basically attacks him:

ref18: BBallCoach, i'd like to see you put on the stripes and do a game, so you can see how difficult it is to officiate instead of b*tching about how we officiate games.

Where in that post was he b*tching about calls?

Now I agree that after that he said some pretty stupid things, but i don't think it would have digressed to this point if his question would have been answered thoughtfully. Maybe it would have. I don't know BBallCoach so I can't make that assumption. You say that we shouldn't lump all referees together, then don't lump all coaches together either.

And by the way CMCKENNA, coaches aren't the only ones that call over the back, I've had more that one official this year make that exact call in a game, even making the frankenstein reach over on the signal.



[Edited by gsf23 on Feb 6th, 2004 at 09:17 AM]

Hey Coach,

Unbelievable! I can see right through you. You obviously have very little playing experience. Not one that has had a relationship with the game for very long. You see, people that have been around the game for some time understand and do respect our involvement in basketball. You must be one of these NBA watching-goof balls that thinks he can coach because he picked up a clipboard and a cork whistle from a sporting goods store. You may have passed yourself off as some guru to a school administrator but I don't think any player will ever fondly look back on his relationship with you. Why? You never taught him anything.

Your coaching is not about the players or teaching. It’s about you. And you are clearly so insecure about your abilities to teach the game that you spend game time on the officials backs to feign some knowledge of basketball. Oh, but be cautious, because when you open your mouth (like you have in the forum here) you noticeably expose your ignorance. That’s right. Parents, other coaches, scorekeepers, and players all realize when you speak nonsense. Even when you don’t. But you can’t just shut up. Because since your not teaching or coaching, if your not yelling at us, what would you do. It would be more plainly obvious you have no business on the sideline. Yeah, I know you. You may have anonymity on the board here but I know dozens of you. You all have something in common too. Your time coaching will be short lived.

Our local interpreter gave the coaches an old test. Let's just say the results weren't pretty.

Well, dang, I'm sorry this thread wasn't more legitimate, because in my rules education that really started a couple of years ago, I'll tell you why I think the disrespect exists:

1. Refs don't care about the outcome of the game, but fans do, especially when Junior or Juniorette is involved. Passion and bias ultimately lead to looking for scapegoats. Refs are easy targets.

2. As has been often mentioned, fans and coaches don't know the rules like refs. Basketball rules can be complex (e.g., over and back - dribbling vs. not dribbling) and, maybe, inconsistent (e.g., a travel by a person with the ball when the ball is live isn't a travel by the same person when throwing the ball in). As you know, fans don't read the rules, so don't understand the nuances.

3. Fans watch the ball. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a play on film, and realized I was wrong when I complained when I saw the play live because I was focused on the ball, and not was happening around the ball.

4. Judgment and perspective. Some refs call it tight, some don't. Some refs put up with a lot, some don't. A hand check up top isn't treated the same as a box out underneath.

Of course, you don't deserve the disrespect. As officials, your main recourse is to actively pursue opportunities to educate fans and coaches. Require mini-clinics before seasons start.

BBallCoach proved one thing. There are some coaches out there who sure know how to get on the officials' nerves. His first post wasn't personal in any way, and it wasn't directed at the members of this forum. He didn't even mention whether he shared the alledged lack of respect.

The first reply was already getting a little personal, Rut came in with a thoughtful response, but from then on for most of the rest of the thread, most of the posts got more and more personal and more and more stereotyping from both sides. And it was obvious that he was succeeding in baiting many responders.

My take is that BBallCoach's premise was faulty to begin with, but not entirely without merit. I think most coaches and players do respect the officials. There certainly are exceptions, and the exceptions get more and more common the higher up the basketball chain you go, but exceptions do not prove his premise. He may (from reading his subsequent postings) believe, and even be party to the premise, but that still doesn't make it so.

I do believe, however, that fans of youth games (pre HS) tend to believe anything that doesn't go their team's way is caused by officials who are unfair or incompetent. These are the parents who really don't know anything about the game to begin with, they just want to see their kid do well. In HS and college, the fans change over to being teenagers. How many groups of teenagers can possibly resist the opportunity to yell at authority figures with impunity? To them, it's just part of the event.

CYO, yours and many others basic premise is that BBallCoach is a coach. I don't believe he is a caoch. I think he is just some guy who doesn't like officials and this is a way he can get his jollies. Another word for this guy is Coward.

Darn, around my office I'm considered the most cynical guy, never taking anything at its face value. I have to come here to get shown up as a gullible neophyte :(. Of course, while I don't want to claim BBallCoach into the coaching assembly, I have known a few over the years who could be complete idiots. At one time my wife's best friend made her husband quit coaching (baseball) because it turned him into a total ***hole for 6 months of the year.

Fisherman!
 

I think that the guy that started this post must be a pretty domn good fisherman too because he threw out the bait and got us to bite the hook, line and sinker! Ouch!

Thats funny.

You all just got your 5th. Game over!

Go to the scorebook!

Hmmm...just one quick question: What makes BBallCoach - or anyone else - think we don't get respect???

BBallCoach

There are many types of coaches out there. From what I can tell, it seems that you are a divide and conquer type of coach. You attempt to divide referees against each other by thoughts such as this. Rather than repect our efforts and our determination to render fair and just judgements, you prefer to attempt to distract us by making comments that border on personal attacks. I can assure you that type of behavior would get you nowhere with most officials that I work with.

As far as the players remembering interactions that they have with officials, it is rare that a player will recall more than 1 instance because it was not a life changing event. The life changing events come from coaches that help them reach deep inside themselves to shape their lives, both positive and negative.

Who influenced you when you were playing? I would bet that a former coach influenced you enough to become a coach. Why did I become a ref?, because basketball is the greatest game ever and coaches like you who taught me the lessons in life the basketball can provide. I like that association with the game.

Best of luck the rest of the season.

gsf23, BballCoach's first post on this thread isn't that offensive, by itself. However, when taken in context of everything (I mean that literally) else he's posted, it smells awfully bad.
Look at his posts in such threads as "how to talk to officials."
Go to Google, do an advanced search for BBallCoach isolated to http://www.officialforum.com, and you'll see what I mean.

Adam