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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 03:55pm
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I have been officiating basketball for 5 years now @ the High School level. This year I decided to volunteer and coach @ the Junior level, 13-15 under NFHS Rules.

Well, here is the scenario. Three man crew. One official, for 3 weeks now, has been calling 3 seconds with shot halfway to the rim or ball was loose on the floor. Making calls out of his area and out of position. On one particular call in the 2nd quarter, he called over the back while in the T position heading down court from behind the play and could not see any contact, because there was no contact. (Now being an official, I have VERY tough skin.) After this call, I had wanted a tech to voice my opinion with the officiating, so I stepped onto the floor and said, "I have seen some bad calls in my time, but that was the worst". OK, I got my T I wanted. After reporting the T to the table, I asked the official who was standing approx. 12 feet from me, "I would like to ask you how you made that call from the position you were in". He T'd me again, 2nd T, I'm gone.

Was ejection warranted there, or was his skin too thin?

I regret acting that way for all you officials who are gonna tell me I should know better, but working the official is part of the game. One which I enjoy as an official. The bickering is another thing, but that was my 1st outburst.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 04:04pm
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally posted by thumpferee
I have been officiating basketball for 5 years now @ the High School level. This year I decided to volunteer and coach @ the Junior level, 13-15 under NFHS Rules.

Well, here is the scenario. Three man crew. One official, for 3 weeks now, has been calling 3 seconds with shot halfway to the rim or ball was loose on the floor. Making calls out of his area and out of position. On one particular call in the 2nd quarter, he called over the back while in the T position heading down court from behind the play and could not see any contact, because there was no contact. (Now being an official, I have VERY tough skin.) After this call, I had wanted a tech to voice my opinion with the officiating, so I stepped onto the floor and said, "I have seen some bad calls in my time, but that was the worst". OK, I got my T I wanted. After reporting the T to the table, I asked the official who was standing approx. 12 feet from me, "I would like to ask you how you made that call from the position you were in". He T'd me again, 2nd T, I'm gone.

Was ejection warranted there, or was his skin too thin?

I regret acting that way for all you officials who are gonna tell me I should know better, but working the official is part of the game. One which I enjoy as an official. The bickering is another thing, but that was my 1st outburst.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
You get less rope if the officials know you're an official. You may not think it's fair, but that's the way it is. I think it is as it should be, BTW.

Why is working the officials part of the game? You probably scream at the officials from the stands when you go to the game as a fan, too.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 04:10pm
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FYI, the 3 second count does stop when a shot goes up, but it doesn't stop just because the ball is loose - it would only stop once a player from the other team gained control of the ball. I also believe the trail has every right to call an over the back push call. No doubt we have all seen things different from our angle as opposed to the coach's angle and I'll bet sometimes what looks like a foul from my angle maybe wasn't. Which one of us are perfect? Being an official yourself, you should know better than to try and show one up. If you didn't want the second T, you should have let the second comment go. What answer were you hoping to get from that question?
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 04:13pm
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Lightbulb You rolled the dice.

You got what you deserved. You complained and would not let it go, so you got T'd up. Not only were you on the court, but you questioned his judgment. Now you say you are an official, so you should know that either was T'able offenses. Maybe he was tired of hearing your mouth as well. The little things stick out when you are complaining all night. So maybe that was just the last straw. It is not what you say all the time, it is the way you say it.

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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 04:19pm
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Why is working the officials part of the game? You probably scream at the officials from the stands when you go to the game as a fan, too. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not at all. Like I said, it was my 1st comment of the game, it had been building up though. My question was if the 2nd T was warranted? I had directors there and witnessed the whole thing and said it was uncalled for but had to uphold his call. The thing is, I am suspended from next weeks game because of this officials attempt to show his authority.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 04:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by thumpferee


Why is working the officials part of the game? You probably scream at the officials from the stands when you go to the game as a fan, too.
Not at all. Like I said, it was my 1st comment of the game, it had been building up though. My question was if the 2nd T was warranted? I had directors there and witnessed the whole thing and said it was uncalled for but had to uphold his call. The thing is, I am suspended from next weeks game because of this officials attempt to show his authority. [/B][/QUOTE]

He did show it, didn't he? You roll the dice, you take your chances. After the first T you should've known to sit down and be quiet. Anything after the first T can be considered part of a second. Whether or not you any of us thought it was a quick T doesn't matter -- the guy with the whistle did.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 04:31pm
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ALRIGHT!

I get the point! Thanks for your responses!

Being on the opposite side of the coin is a little harder than I thought it would be. I'll SHUT UP and quit analyzing! He was bad though.LOL

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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 04:37pm
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Were you expecting to get the cream of the crop at the junior level? Is it really that shocking that you got a novice official working your game? I guess your amazing 5 years of experience was at such a high level all the time that you never made incorrect calls or misinterpreted any of the rules. If anyone should understand and respect the fact that sometimes we make mistakes, it should be a fellow official. I really don't think you get it at all. If this guy has been making bad 3 second calls for several games (and keep in mind you yourself don't understand the 3 second rule based on your original post) did it occur to you to talk to the guy, official to official, after one of his games and set him straight?
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 04:51pm
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What surprised me is that you had three officials working that level of game. That is unheard of in the sticks where I live. We're lucky to find two guys with shirts to do a lower level game. (They might or might not have a whistle).
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 11:20pm
Ref Ump Welsch
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Worked 3-man once for a 5th and 6th grade YMCA boys league once. I guess the week before, the other 2 officials had a rough time handling these kids (of course, the officials aren't registered high school officials like me) so the director asked me to stick around for one more game and work with them. After the game, the director said it was a better game than the week before.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 01:49am
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Quote:
Originally posted by thumpferee
....working the official is part of the game.
Boy, did you pick the wrong place to say that.
Quote:
....one which I enjoy as an official.
Well, that makes one of you. Any official worth his salt does not ENJOY the conflict - (s)he strives to minimize and eliminate it.

You got your T, and still decided to press on. Put your official's cap on for a second - a coach has pushed you far enough that you need to whack him. And the coach still won't shut up. What would you do?
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 02:35am
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 09:19am
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lol. you deserved it and you should know that. You worked the same official right after he just gave you a T, what else did you expect him to do. I think everyone has pretty much pointed out the problems with your actions.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 09:30pm
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Buy him a rule book

Obviously, this ref isn't as up on some of the rules are you are. Instead of trying to get a T, you may want to talk to him politely after a game (one you win convincently would be best) that you have an extra rule book and would be willing to show him a few things that could help. Don't mention the exact details, but keep in general. If he is receptive, you can then explain some of these rules he is missing.
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