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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 08:06am
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This happened in my game Saturday night. I'm in C, and Player A1 is trying to get free to receive the ball but her defender is playing very good defense on her. She runs behind me out of bounds and returns in bounds and receives the ball. I react instinctively, blow the whistle, signal 'T' , and start across towards the table. I stop to talk to my R and in the end we end up selling a violation on team A and getting the ball back in play as quick as possible. This was a very competitive game and ended up being a two pointer in the end , two of the better teams in this conference. I know that by rule it was a technical foul, but my question is really what is the best way to handle it:

a) Stick with the T, probably have to T the coach too because he didn't think it was even against the rules to go OB to avoid a screen. This probably puts a black mark on an otherwise great game.

b) Ignore the whole thing at the time and try to tell the girl later not to let it happen again.

c) Do as we did and sell the violation.
Comments?
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 08:37am
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I would.....

stick with the T. By rule that is the call. The fact that she ran around you and out of bounds in an effort to shake the defender in my opinion definitely warrants the T. You are penalizing great defense by not calling it. Not sure who won the game, but what if team A went on to win the game by a point? By calling a violation instead of the T you kept team B from a "legal" opportunity to win the game. How would you and your R feel then? I would have gone with the T and done everything in my power to not T the coach.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 09:02am
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Like the "thrown elbow" violation in High school, performing that act should be merely a violation.
Punishment doesn't fit the crime. However, as it is written, you should go with the "T", unless you caught a "travel" somewhere else.

Try backing off the endline so that the player will have to go through the next gym to get around you.

mick
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 10:24am
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This is a tough call Dog. You have to look at why the rule was put in there in the first place. Usually, your first instinct is correct. Just because this is never called doesn't mean that it should never be called. There would be no reason for the rule. Not being there, I can't comment on your call. Just note that usually when I look back on the calls I question in my mind, instinct takes over and the rules interpretation at the instant I hit the whistle are usually correct. Especially in the type of call you made here. I don't know if that makes any sense or not, but if the player gained an advantage by going out of bounds, a T was warranted. That is why the rule was put in there.
It would be tough, as Mick suggests, for the C to get deeper on the endline!
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 05:12pm
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Easy technical foul.


You can let it go when the player runs with a toe or even 2 feet out of bounds.

When they go behind you, though . . . then recieve a pass . . . probably going to get a quick 3 - technical time.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 07:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Like the "thrown elbow" violation in High school, performing that act should be merely a violation.
Never in my book will a "thrown elbow" be just a violation. I am going to toss the trower just as I would toss someone who "throws a punch" and does not make contact. We are talking about a deliberate act that can cause great harm if contact is made.


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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 07:50pm
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slight misunderstanding

Whoa, nelly! Nobody's talking about a thrown elbow like to the jaw or something! I understand the original post--the simple violation of swinging an elbow around, such as with the ball to create distance. It's only a violation, and that's a fair penalty.

Back to the original question, I don't think you can advance very far by 'selling' a violation for that play when there is no such violation in the book! However, there is a 'T' in the book for leaving the floor.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 08:38pm
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Re: slight misunderstanding

Quote:
Originally posted by mplagrow
Whoa, nelly! Nobody's talking about a thrown elbow like to the jaw or something! I understand the original post--the simple violation of swinging an elbow around, such as with the ball to create distance. It's only a violation, and that's a fair penalty.

Back to the original question, I don't think you can advance very far by 'selling' a violation for that play when there is no such violation in the book! However, there is a 'T' in the book for leaving the floor.
And Mick said "Thrown Elbow" in his origional post, not the old swing faster than the hips movement of the elbow rule.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 09:06pm
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The non-connecting thrown elbow is, in my book, usually quite different than a punch or other types of obvious fighting. It's normally a "get off me" elbow, it shouldn't happen, but I don't see this usually requiring an ejection.

As for the OOB run, it is the correct call, and in NCAA, going to POI, it seems that it is not nearly as severe a penalty as in NF. In NF you give 2 FTs and ball. In NCAA, I guess this would result in eam A getting the ball back at POI with whatever time remained on the shot clock. That makes it a slightly easier call. Although, since this is not a well-known rule (among refs, players, or coaches), I don't think it is fair to characterize it as easy, Mark
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 08:54am
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Thanks for the good replies. I think that if I had been more confident with the rule and the situation, I would have stuck with the T. I will be better prepared next time and this is something I will definitely bring up in pregame tonight. I have the same team again.
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