Losing control of the game.

[cuttplug]

I coach for a 5th grade boys rec league and saturday the referees were not calling fouls on either team and the kids totally lost their tempers and the game actually was pretty ugly. At one point I was ready to take my team off the floor for fear of one my players getting hurt. THe other coach was telling his kids to foul as soon as they could to try and catch up on the score. We won 35-26, being in a rec league it is real hard to get properly trained officials to referee our games, are there any suggestion you can give to make sure this does not continue?

[TriggerMN]

Become an official yourself!

In 5th grade, the players, coaches, and officials should be out there to have fun. Winning should be secondary.

Ask other coaches in your league if they feel the same way you do. Do NOT ask parents of players--they will be completely biased. If other coaches feel the same way, call the assignor of officials, or league coordinator, or whomever. If it is a league-wide problem and players are actually getting hurt, the assignor or scheduler would probably tell his officials to call a few more fouls...

[Mark Padgett]

As someone who is in his 13th season of being on the Board of a local rec league, let me tell you what you probably don't want to hear. Unless you have very dedicated senior officials who are willing to take the time to train the younger and inexperienced officials, you are not going to get experienced officials at that grade level.

In my league, we have a "mentoring" program. Some of us will work lower level games with new refs to help train them. Sometimes, we assign an experienced official to "train" two new refs during a game, and the experienced official gets his/her standard game fee. However, I have found that the number of experienced officials that will do either of these two functions is relatively small.

It's not inexpensive to train officials. Many rec leagues can't afford to spend their limited funds doing it.

I second Mark's comments, as well as Trigger's. Sometimes you might have to talk to the league director, as he/she might be the main link to the assignor, as I believe to be the case here where I work. Becoming an official yourself is a good idea too. Do what you have to do, as I say quite often.

[rainmaker]

If you and the coach of the opponents' team together talk to the refs at half-time about tightening up, it ought to happen. If it doesn't, then instead of a suggestion to the baord, you should have a complaint.

Another thing I saw work one time, was for the coach of the team that was ahead to say to the refs at half-time, "I've been working with my kids on really clean defense. Would you please call them for the blocking fouls when they bump the dribbler, and the shooting fouls if their arms aren't straight up? Thanks." When this was said to me, we tightened up -- on both teams -- quite a bit.

Also, if you think the refs are just lazy, or trying to get to a hot date, you could say, again at half-time, "I know you guys don't get paid a lot, but if you'd tighten up off-ball right at the beginning of the second half, it may actually speed up the game, since the boys will back off and have fewer fouls at the end. Then we could all get out of here quicker"

[Rich]

Originally posted by rainmaker
If you and the coach of the opponents' team together talk to the refs at half-time about tightening up, it ought to happen. If it doesn't, then instead of a suggestion to the baord, you should have a complaint.

Another thing I saw work one time, was for the coach of the team that was ahead to say to the refs at half-time, "I've been working with my kids on really clean defense. Would you please call them for the blocking fouls when they bump the dribbler, and the shooting fouls if their arms aren't straight up? Thanks." When this was said to me, we tightened up -- on both teams -- quite a bit.

Also, if you think the refs are just lazy, or trying to get to a hot date, you could say, again at half-time, "I know you guys don't get paid a lot, but if you'd tighten up off-ball right at the beginning of the second half, it may actually speed up the game, since the boys will back off and have fewer fouls at the end. Then we could all get out of here quicker"

And now, here's another side of the story.

My high school partner and I agreed to work some rec games for a Saturday morning youth league.

My partner is told that he sucks by one of the players after the game. He tells her and her father that he's going to report this incident. Father pokes partner in the chest and partner almost gets the police involved.

Get a letter in the mail this week where officials are held partially to blame for this behavior -- saying that not enough fouls are being called in the games. Of course, these coaches and players think every bit of contact is a foul, and frankly I refuse to call a game that way.

My partner got a phone call from the guy running the league -- he tells my partner that nobody got suspended.

If you are unable to attract quality officials, you need to ask yourself the following questions:

(1) Are we paying the officials enough?
(2) Do we clearly and unequivocally support the officials in disputes?
(3) Do we have clear sportsmanship guidelines we enforce?

I work a rec program about 30 miles from my house. They pay less money than any other program in the area. In 2 seasons of work there I have never had to say a single word to a coach or call a single technical foul.

Would I rather work rec ball there than anywhere else? You bet. Strive to make your program like that for your officials and some of the good ones will come out and work.

[WindyCityRef]

And yet another side of the story:

Here's what happened to me last night, 8th grade boys.

Teams are both playing hard, Green is up by 20 and I can see a couple of the kids on both sides starting to get aggravated with each other. Boys will be Boys. Coach from White team pulls his kid, he was smart, saw the kid starting to act badly and yanked him, even though it was his best player. Kid from green team is upset with being fouled going in to score, I called the foul, it wasn't cheap or dirty, however he picked up the ball and threw it at the White team player, hitting him. I blew the whistle and called a T. My mistake was not ejecting this player.

Two possessions later, another White foul - holdng - upsets a differnt Green player, he runs after and pushes the White player to the floor. Again, T and this time I eject the player. Coach from Green isn't happy. I talk to him and tell him to calm his players down. He just yells at me, for what I don't know.

After the T, While inbounds the ball and Green knocks it out of bounds, I signal While ball, Green bench goes nuts, players on the floor start screaming at me. It was the easiest call of the night for me, I have no idea why these people are acting like this. Green team yanks his players off the court and they leave.

I leave to inform the guy running the league as to what just happened, and when I left his room to go get a drink and return to the floor to do my next game, parents from Green are wating for me and start giving me a ton of static, one player from Green who I T'd up for tossing the ball at a White player is there also and starts yelling right in my face, right in front of the parents. Heck it was hard to move away from these people. I just got the heck out of there.

Once agian, I informed the guy running the league and he said he'd take care of it. Guess what, that same Green team played at the court next to mine two games later, no one was susspened or anything.

I'll never work there again!! I hope they can find officials in a year or two, they get what they deserve.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by WindyCityRef
And yet another side of the story:

...Kid from green team is upset with being fouled going in to score, I called the foul, it wasn't cheap or dirty, however he picked up the ball and threw it at the White team player, hitting him. I blew the whistle and called a T. My mistake was not ejecting this player...

Yes, that was undoubtedly a turning point. You were no longer in charge of the game. Some eighth grader was. Immediate ejection and a resounding forcefulness that this was absolutely unacceptable behavior should have been your response.

Your ejection came too late. You allowed one kid to remain in the game after committing an ejectable offense and then ejected a second kid for another ejectable offense. You stretched the rules for one, trying to keep the game going, and it cost you. You won't miss that again.

We call it "tighten it up" but truthfully it is more like call the fouls being committed - don't allow them to play through 'stuff.' If a game is heading into a tailspin, pass on nothing. Call it all; even imagine a few things if necessary - but stop the play to shoot free throws. Do not play favorites for anyone; call everything. No one enjoys this type of a game and eventually they will quit fouling or foul out.

Saw it a couple weeks ago during a D1 men's college game! For probably 3 minutes of game time there was not more than about 20 seconds of continuous play; it probably took 20 minutes for those 3 mintues of game time to elapse. Things calmed down and players recalled why they were on the court... to play ball.

[TriggerMN]

I could not disagree more with what Rainmaker said. At absolutely no level of play is it okay for the coaches to be able to tell the officials how to officiate during the game. If two coaches came up to me at halftime of a varsity or NCAA women's game with the same gripe, I would direct them to their locker rooms or huddles and walk away. If it persisted, I would give a technical foul.

Then you have one coach who asks you to call more fouls on his own team, and you decide to call more fouls on BOTH teams? What is that? Don't penalize the other team just because the first team wants more fouls called on themselves.

I just can't believe that as an official yourself, you would make these comments, or even condone them if a coach directed them at you...

[Bart Tyson]

We won 35-26, being in a rec league it is real hard to get properly trained officials to referee our games, are there any suggestion you can give to make sure this does not continue? [/B]

I'm sure you can find some quality officials if you are willing to pay $150.00 per game.

Had a problem similar to this working a parochial school league on Saturday, but different results. It was an 8th grade game (am I seeing a trend here???). One team is falling behind in points and racking up the fouls. Coaches for that team start griping a bit. I'll call them Team A. Happens A1 (their tallest player) gets whistled for pushing foul on B1. A1 had his forearm in B1's back, as A1 was coming from behind to tip the pass away from B1. Easiest foul for me to call, right? Well, go to report it, Team A coach looks at me and shakes his head. I reported it, turned to coach and showed him the forearm and told him what happened. Coach still didn't like it. Eventually, Coach started grumbling less. After the game, he actually came up and apologized for his grumblings. A parent from his team also came up and let us know we called an excellent game. Remember A1? His dad had the opposite behavior. He just looked at us from across the court, and shook his head and gave us that "go away" wave. I turned to partner and said, that dude has no guts to say it to our face.

[CYO Butch]

Below is a letter sent our by our league director. I have been fortunate that none issues being addressed have occurred in division, and the overwhelming number of coaches support the stiffining of the rules of conduct. These rules are in addition to very strict rules vis-a-vis coaches. One T and I'm out for the next game. One ejection, and I'm out for the season and would have to apply for reinstatement. I like it this way.

The following, although talking a lot about damage to the facilities, was the direct result of two separate instances of people approaching officials in the parking lots after games, and a couple of other times people screaming at the score keepers.


From: xxx xxx, Director of CYO Programs

Date: January 20, 2004

Subject: Behavior at CYO basketball games

We have had an alarming number of incidents already this year, involving parents/fans/spectator's behavior in the stands and parents/fans/spectators leaving the stands. These incidents have occurred at all levels of CYO Basketball.
The last time we had problems in an area of CYO Basketball (the High School Divisions) we stiffened the penalties to the players involved. This has done more to calm the situation than any memo or plea for sensibility. So, it appears now, we will have to treat adults like we treated the children.

I do not think parents understand, we are guests of the facilities in which we play our games. Our hosts do not like to hear that the police had to be called to remove an unruly fan. Our hosts also do not like to have their property damaged. This usually occurs when unsupervised children play in the hallways, while their parents are inside watching their sibling play. Some other youth leagues in our area have lost the use of some gyms because the schools did not want that type of behavior in their facilities.

We have a contract with two referee associations, they do not have to renew their contracts with us; or they can make the price so high it becomes prohibitive to use their services. Both associations have already chosen not to renew contracts with youth leagues were there have been problems with fan behavior and referees felt threatened.

We provide objective scorekeepers and timers at all of our CYO games so there will not be any accusations of favoritism at the table during the games. The majority of these scorekeepers and timers are teenage boys and girls. The next time you as a parent begin to yell at the adolescent
scorekeeper, think how you would feel if it was your son or daughter was being yelled at or spoken to disrespectfully by a stranger.

We have started our own referee association to referee all of our Non-Tournament Leagues games. We are in the second year of this program and it seems to be progressing nicely. The reason we chose to institute the program was that both referee associations no longer wanted to referee this
age group and skill level. Their fees for these games was becoming cost prohibitive. Again we are employing mostly teenagers and young adults.

As a parent/fan/spectator at a CYO basketball game you have the right to attend the game in a mature manner, support your child and their team in a mature manner, and voice your feelings in a mature manner. You do not have the right to verbally assault or verbally threaten any of the game
officials; before, during, or after the game.

From now on any parent/fan/spectator or player who comes onto the court, is ejected from a game, or confronts either the referees or scorekeepers following a game will be suspended from attending ANY CYO game for the next two weeks (cancellations do not count as a week) following the incident. Any further disturbance by this parent/fan/ spectator/player will result in suspension for the remainder of the year from all CYO basketball games.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker
If you and the coach of the opponents' team together talk to the refs at half-time about tightening up, it ought to happen.

That's a very bad idea, Juules.

Butch, that letter is the most ideal letter I've ever seen. The director really laid it out clearly.

On the whole issue we've been discussing, I had another thought after posting my previous posting. Most states have laws relating to assaults on sports officials. I know Nebraska does because I lobbied for it. I would suggest you to contact your local officials association about having a workshop or seminar to discuss the content of the law in your state, and to know the law so that when you are out in the field working games, you are able to remind potential assaulters the penalty for their actions.

I've also had a situation (in softball) where I had to warn a person that I would call 911 if he didn't leave the complex while he was threatening me. He said the cops can't do anything except make him leave or charge him with disorderly conduct. I said, nope, you'd be charged with misdemeanor attempted assault of a sports official with the verbal threats you just made everyone in the complex aware of. I said it loud enough so that everyone was looking at him. Needless to say, he bolted so fast, I thought we had been hit by lightning.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted as CYO Butch's tagline
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of petty minds

Butch, here's the real quote: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." It was written by Ralph Waldo Emerson, in his book Self Reliance. It's usually reproduced without the "adored by little statesmen" ending, but I figured I'd give you the whole sentence, in case you like it better