Subs to Start 4th Quarter

[Stan]

Originally posted by PublicBJ

Before you go off on that, I think we need "preventative scoring" as well as "preventative officiating". The coaches made the effort in the spirit of the game, and got no help from the table.

I'd let it go, and ask the scorer to help us out in the future. If the opposing coach complains (and he has a right to), I'd explain my logic, and state that I would have done the same for him/her. [/B]

I'm not sure they made the effort in the spirit of the game, quite possible that both the head and assistant coaches wanted the starters in to start the fourth quarter and the opposing team to not know it untill it was to late.

Question to the folks that would let this go and "would have done the same for him/her" Would you allow the opposing coach to make the subs he/she wants to now that he knows what the other team is doing?

Personally, I'm brushing up on Rule three.

Thanks, Stan

[davidw]

Originally posted by Stan

I'm not sure they made the effort in the spirit of the game, quite possible that both the head and assistant coaches wanted the starters in to start the fourth quarter and the opposing team to not know it untill it was to late.

Question to the folks that would let this go and "would have done the same for him/her" Would you allow the opposing coach to make the subs he/she wants to now that he knows what the other team is doing?

Personally, I'm brushing up on Rule three.

Thanks, Stan [/B]

Stan,

Also might be a good idea to review the Officials Manual.

In the Officials Manual, page 16, paragraph 105.c it states that one of the referee's pre-game duties is: "Authorize the scorer to note and prevent any attempted illegal substitution." The players who are substituting for the 5 that ended the 3rd quarter, are that--subtitutes.

"Preventative officiating" in this situation not only seems to be allowed, but encouraged. Our table personnel are "table officials".

If I'm telling the coach I would do them same for them, then, yes, I would probably allow their subs since he now knows who the other team's actual player are. I don't think the opposing coach will have much of an argument considering we have, technically, over-looked a potential violation.

That's my position now--barring convincing otherwise.

[oc]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Regardless of his personal answer, it was a good response and one this official wouldn't have thought of. Thanks.

I'm pretty anal about substitutes not coming in if they report after the first horn, so I suppose that this situation is even worse than that.

Rich

I've read this discusion before and understand the rule-but never see it enforced around here. I think we should but it is hard to when you are the U and the R has 2-10x more experience than you and isn't concerned with this rule. Can you explain how you deal with it? Forgot about the situation originally presented here where the coach notified the bench. How about these two situations:

1. Start of the second quarter subs come on to the floor and you know they didn't report in.

2. Just before the second quarter starts, and after the first horn, subs go and report to the bench and try and come on the floor.

In both situations keep in mind that the scorer is a student volunteering that doesn't know the rule-and I am lucky if they can just keep the AP arrow right and don't want to confuse them with this in a pre-game. FYI- in the few games I have been the R I pregamed it with the captains/coaches and it wasn't a problem.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
My story above happened in a varsity girls' game.

Where in PA? Lancaster County. In the past three years, we have started two varsity games and two JV games with a T on the opponents for the book. It should be three JV but the last official refused to call it.

Are you near Johnstown? My family reunion used to be there.

I remember going to the Hershey factory and of course, Amish country.

Great area. Had a blast... including an incident which disqualifies me for running for office.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I'm right in the middle of Amish Country, although it seems more like Alaska right now. I haven't seen my team since Friday. We are going to practice today, weather permitting, but we've had a practice cancelled and a game postponed twice so far this week.

[Hawks Coach]

I think that the most reasonsed solution is to allow the subs and allow the other team to match up with their own subs. It isn't certain that the head coach was pulling a fast one (although he may have been doing so). The fact that he discussed this with the scorer complicates things. This seems like the fairest way out for both sides.

[dblref]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
I'm right in the middle of Amish Country, although it seems more like Alaska right now. I haven't seen my team since Friday. We are going to practice today, weather permitting, but we've had a practice cancelled and a game postponed twice so far this week.

I know the feeling Coach. I am in the northern VA area and my d/h Monday was cancelled and moved to Tuesday, cancelled again and moved to Wednesday, cancelled again and now scheduled for tonight. Have other makeup games on Saturday -- some games will be played at 9:00 am and run most of the day. My wife works at one of the high schools and she is going back today (2-hour delay) for the first time since last Friday.

[Rich]

Originally posted by dblref

I know the feeling Coach. I am in the northern VA area and my d/h Monday was cancelled and moved to Tuesday, cancelled again and moved to Wednesday, cancelled again and now scheduled for tonight. Have other makeup games on Saturday -- some games will be played at 9:00 am and run most of the day. My wife works at one of the high schools and she is going back today (2-hour delay) for the first time since last Friday.

It is -6 right now here with a wind chill of -21. I'd rather have the snow.