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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 03:11am
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A1 goes up for a shot and realizes that he isn't going to get it off because of B1 who is guarding him. So, he simply lets go of the ball once he's airborne. Ball happens to touch B1's heel on the way to the floor. A1 picks up the ball.

As I understand it, once A1 is airborne, there are only three things he can do: pass, shoot, or travel by beginning a dribble or returning to the floor with the ball. He did not shoot. He did not attempt to pass to any player, nor did he try to bounce it off of B1. Even though he did not appear to really be trying to begin a dribble either (he did not push the ball to the floor, merely let go of it), I ruled it a travel by process of eliminiation. Was this correct?
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 03:39am
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Lightbulb Travel.

It is a travel. You cannot drop the ball after attempting a shot on purpose. I do not have my book right in front of me, but there is a discription of this play in the funny book.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 06:53am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
A1 goes up for a shot and realizes that he isn't going to get it off because of B1 who is guarding him. So, he simply lets go of the ball once he's airborne. Ball happens to touch B1's heel on the way to the floor. A1 picks up the ball.

As I understand it, once A1 is airborne, there are only three things he can do: pass, shoot, or travel by beginning a dribble or returning to the floor with the ball. He did not shoot. He did not attempt to pass to any player, nor did he try to bounce it off of B1. Even though he did not appear to really be trying to begin a dribble either (he did not push the ball to the floor, merely let go of it), I ruled it a travel by process of eliminiation. Was this correct?
Legal play- not a travel. Once the ball hit B1's heel, it becomes a free ball that can be legally recovered by any player on the floor.A1 lost player control when the ball hit B1,so he can legally recover the ball and dribble again,etc.This play is almost the same as a player taking a shot, the ball leaves his hands and then a defender blocks the ball right back to him. That player can legally come down with the ball, and then dribble,pass or go right back up with it.

If A1 would have been the first player to touch the ball after he returned to the floor, it would have been travelling.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 21st, 2004 at 07:07 AM]
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 08:16am
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I agree with Jurassic Referee - this play is not a travel. You can abandon the ball any time you like - just let go. The rules also specify the parameters of recovering the ball, once you let it go. In this case, the ball touched an opponent, making it a free ball for A1 to recover. Therefore, it is a legal play.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 08:28am
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A little twist here. A1 goes up to shoot on the way up the ball is tipped out of his hands. He recovers the ball in the air and comes down with it, Travel? Or legal play? I know how I call it, and I don't think its right, even though it never gets a comment from the coaches....
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 08:47am
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Quote:
Originally posted by cmathews
A little twist here. A1 goes up to shoot on the way up the ball is tipped out of his hands. He recovers the ball in the air and comes down with it, Travel? Or legal play? I know how I call it, and I don't think its right, even though it never gets a comment from the coaches....
Legal play.

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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 09:19am
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More information is needed on the second play described:

If the ball is in the hands of the shooter and is momentarily tapped and the player returns to the floor with the ball.... this is a travel.

If the ball is in the shooters hands and is touched by the defender for a "longer" (more than momentary) period of time... this is a jump ball.

If the ball leaves the shooters hand, is blocked and the shooter gets the ball back....as mentioned before, is nothing and play on.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 11:19am
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Bob, yep I agree, and for some reason, and I am working on it, I call this a travel. Like I said it never gets a peep from a coach, but it doesn't make me feel any better LOL
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 11:26am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
More information is needed on the second play described:

If the ball is in the hands of the shooter and is momentarily tapped and the player returns to the floor with the ball.... this is a travel.

If the ball is in the shooters hands and is touched by the defender for a "longer" (more than momentary) period of time... this is a jump ball.

If the ball leaves the shooters hand, is blocked and the shooter gets the ball back....as mentioned before, is nothing and play on.
Second situation clearly says ball tipped out of player's hands. It is not in the shooter's hands. Therefore, no further info is needed - this is a free ball once B tips it away from A, and a can catch the ball while in the air and have full rights to come down, pivot, dribble, etc.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 11:31am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
More information is needed on the second play described:

If the ball is in the hands of the shooter and is momentarily tapped and the player returns to the floor with the ball.... this is a travel.

If the ball is in the shooters hands and is touched by the defender for a "longer" (more than momentary) period of time... this is a jump ball.

If the ball leaves the shooters hand, is blocked and the shooter gets the ball back....as mentioned before, is nothing and play on.
You need to provide more info. At anytime did the ball leave the hands of the shooter and at anytime was the shooter airborne?
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 11:31am
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I stand corrected in that there was sufficient info. However, my point was to say that in this "type" of play you can generally have three situations. I have seen many officials call the scenario I list first as a legal (play on type) play because the defender made contact with the ball. This is a travel if the player returns to the floor after momentary contact by the defender.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 11:45am
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It depends, if the def. touched the ball on the front, side, or back, and it was just a tap then I have a travel, because it didn't prevent a shot. If the def tapped the ball on top, then I have a jump ball.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 03:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bart Tyson
It depends, if the def. touched the ball on the front, side, or back, and it was just a tap then I have a travel, because it didn't prevent a shot. If the def tapped the ball on top, then I have a jump ball.
I think that the type of contact makes a difference. A slight tap may be judged not to have "prevented the release" of the basketball regardless of where it occurred. By rule, the contact must prevent the player from releasing the shot, and that is not always the case even with the contact on top. And contact on the front of the ball may prevent the release.

That said, if you err on the side of how you say you rule, it is generally correct IMO.
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Old Wed Jan 21, 2004, 04:00pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
More information is needed on the second play described:

If the ball is in the hands of the shooter and is momentarily tapped and the player returns to the floor with the ball.... this is a travel.

If the ball is in the shooters hands and is touched by the defender for a "longer" (more than momentary) period of time... this is a jump ball.

If the ball leaves the shooters hand, is blocked and the shooter gets the ball back....as mentioned before, is nothing and play on.
correct Hawks. This is similar to some of our previous discussions concerning a jump ball and also covers the original #1 as presented by BBall_Junkie.

Definition of Held ball 4-25-2
... An opponent places his/her hand(s) on the ball and prevents an airborne player from throwing the ball or releasing it on a try.

Given that definition, I would be very hesitant to call a travel - the only way would be if the offensive player got free of the contact and had obvious opportunity to pass or shoot but didn't. Any other contact on the ball that causes an up and down motion should elicit a jump ball call.

Throwing or shooting have got to be very positive acts. If one of those positive acts cannot happen due to the contact, jump is the proper call.
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