Hard foul at end of game

[Forksref]

I have to laugh!

In 30 years, I've never had a game get out of hand. Maybe hard to get control earlier in the game, but never out of hand at the end.

I don't let real fouls go and I've never seen teams TRYING to foul do it lightly. Going for the ball and going for the foul are not the same thing.

Me thinks thou hast ignored the term 'judgment' in my post.

[TPS2859]

I have given out more technicals than intentionals, it seems to get the coaches attenion alot quicker and it nips the problem in the bud before everything gets out of hand.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by TPS2859
I have given out more technicals than intentionals, it seems to get the coaches attenion alot quicker and it nips the problem in the bud before everything gets out of hand.

You give out Ts for fouls at (near) the end of the game? That doesn't seem correct.

As I posted on another forum, "Technical" and "Intentional" are not mutually exclusive. "Technical" and "Personal" are.

You can have an IT or an IP. You can have an FT or an FP. You can have a T or a P. You can't have a PT or a TP.

[TPS2859]

Didnt say "near" or at the end of a game. If I feel that what is happening could cause the game to get out of control and that a players intention can be construde of those actions, then BANG, they bought a "T" for unsportsmanlike. Does it work? Never had a game get out of control! Is it right? Everyone seems to have there own style. Just giving my 2 cents.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Forksref
I don't let the time of the game tell me what to do. I don't 'change tactics.' Players can commit an intentional foul that is not ticky tacky and not severe. We've all seen it. I'll be the judge of whether contact needs to be called a foul or not. That's what I get paid to do, use my judgment.

It is about GAME MANAGEMENT not judgement.Your philosophy is fine when it comes to swallowing your whistle because,"We don't want to decide the game," but this is different.

The game situation dictates that we need to call the foul.
In fact with younger kids I have even remined the players,
while we were lining up to shoot free throws,that we are aware of the situation and they don't NEED to be overly aggressive with the contact to get the foul called.

[Edited by blindzebra on Jan 15th, 2004 at 09:30 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Forksref
I have to laugh!

In 30 years . . .[snip]. . . I've never seen teams TRYING to foul do it lightly.

This is an exaggeration for emphasis, right? In 30 years (of officiating?), you've never seen a defensive player "pitty-pat" the kid with the ball just to get you to blow the whistle?

I won't say that I see this all the time, but some smart players (and there are some) know that the official is going to call the foul and just do enough to get the whistle.

If you weren't exaggerating, then it's my turn to laugh!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by TPS2859
Didnt say "near" or at the end of a game. If I feel that what is happening could cause the game to get out of control and that a players intention can be construde of those actions, then BANG, they bought a "T" for unsportsmanlike. Does it work? Never had a game get out of control! Is it right? Everyone seems to have there own style. Just giving my 2 cents.

Are you saying that you give out technical fouls for hard contact fouls committed during a live ball, in lieu of intentional fouls?

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I've coached in 345 V or JV games now in 8 seasons. I've seen two.

1) About five or six years ago in a JV game, an opposing player got tossed for an elbow that didn't connect.

2) Three seasons ago in the most physical girls' varsity game I've coached in, a game screaming for something to clean it up, a flagrant was called on one of my JV players who got in with 45 seconds left, and got out with 43 seconds left.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Forksref
Me thinks thou hast ignored the term 'judgment' in my post.

I don't think so. You must have missed this statement.

"I've seen a whole lot of $hit that could have been avoided if the official had used better judgment."

If a player is obviously trying to foul, it should be called. If it isn't, they'll just foul harder. That's when players get unnecessarily hurt.

[finnref]

Nice discussion on the type of foul. But why was the black team up by 15 with 4 seconds left running a touchdown play? Is this sportsmanship and did this influence the attitude of the white player who fouled??

[Adam]

If all the defense is in the backcourt, run for the TD. It's probably (normally) the safest play to run as the player running ahead of everyone else is less likely to get fouled.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by finnref
Nice discussion on the type of foul. But why was the black team up by 15 with 4 seconds left running a touchdown play? Is this sportsmanship and did this influence the attitude of the white player who fouled??

It probably did but it doesn't justify his action, nor should it affect the call that's made.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by finnref
Nice discussion on the type of foul. But why was the black team up by 15 with 4 seconds left running a touchdown play?

Same reason the white team was pressing while down 15 with 4 seconds to go.

[RookieDude]

Thanks to those of you who responded to the question of Flagrant fouls. Interesting sitchs that happened to some of you.

How bout some others...Chuck? Bob? JR? JRut?...you guys ever call a Flagrant in a H.S. game?

RD

[RoyalsCoach]

I have a question regarding some of the comments here and on other threads. On another thread it was mentioned that if a coach yells out,"Foul them", then a subsequent foul should be called intentional even if going after the ball. The reasoning being is you know the intent was to foul to stop the clock. Now in this thread the official is saying I am aware of the situation. I know you are going to try and foul to stop the clock so I am going to alter my way of calling fouls. If you know the intent is to foul why is this not an intentional foul? I have always assumed that when everybody in the building knows the defense is going to foul, the official cannot make that assumption. They can't read a players mind. But here you do make that assumption and alter the calls accordingly. It seems to me that penalizes the offense. If the offense is doing a great job of moving the ball to avoid a steal or foul and foul is called for slight contact that would not be called earlier. It penalizes good play. I am not advocating rough play. But I believe you can safely go after the ball and acutually foul without being too rough. It's just my opinion but I would like the game to be called the same from beginning to end.