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Hawks Coach Wed Jan 14, 2004 05:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by w_sohl
Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Witnessed a bigger screw-up two days ago. Teams are aligned wrong for overtime jump ball. I was just an observer, but I noticed it right away and told the people sitting around me. There was a red violation on the jump, and the refs and some of the players on white understood that the teams were going the wrong way. Three white players are lined up at the true offensive end of the court, red has two players at each end and one in the middle, and everyone appears confused.

Instead of the refs clarifying, they hand the ball to the inbounder, she inbounded to a point guard in backcourt, and she comes to the front court (while the inbounder screams at her thinking it is a backcourt violation - she didn't even know what way they were going). While red tries to sort out what was going on, white passes to the block and gets the quick score. Red coach was understandably POd, red team gets distracted and loses ball, white team hits a three, and the rout is on.

Refs needed to get the teams set right before the re-start.

I completely disagree! It is the players job to know which way they are going just as much as it is ours. It is not our responsibility to tell the players they are going the wrong way. Look at it this way, and this is a true story. Coach runs a play where his player line up under the wrong basket for an inbound in an attempt to confuse the other team and catch a break when one of the players breaks for the correct basket. Now if you are going to tell teh players that they are going the wrong way you are going to completely take away any advantage that that team had. The coaches and players need to know just as much as we do.

My example is clearly different from yours. In my example, the officials allowed red to face white's bench and white to face red's bench, tossed the ball for a jump, and thereby started play the wrong direction. The incorrect direction had official blessing when the ball was tossed. On the subsequent violation, when the refs realized that they had erred in starting play the wrong way with the jump ball, they should correct it and make it known to both teams and both coaches.

My situation is effectively no different than putting ball in play at the start of a period and both teams going the wrong way for a minute or two, with each scoring at the wrong end of the court, violating backcourt provisions in the process, etc. All points would be allowed. But the refs should not get the teams going opposite how they started to play (and were allowed by both officials to play) without clearly informing both teams of the error and getting them resituated.

Your situation is one team tricking another, which the officials do not have any responsibility to correct or clarify. You are not providing any official recognition that the players are going in one direction or another. But if you toss a jump ball with the players wrong, you have condoned their incorrect alignment and must correct this at the first opportunity when you note it.

w_sohl Wed Jan 14, 2004 06:19pm

Hawks Coach, I would agree 100% in that situation.

ChuckElias Wed Jan 14, 2004 07:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by stripes
Take some heat if you have to, but cowboy up and get it done and done right.
Hmmm, now you're showing the true color of your sox. :)

sleebo Wed Jan 14, 2004 09:41pm

In relation to stripes' comment, I wasn't trying to totally cop out, I was just glad there wasn't a bunch of pressure on my back when I honestly didn't know the exact right way to handle the situation. I tried to step up and handle the situation (along with my partner) the best way I knew how to. I was just a little glad that I didn't have to make the total end-all decision as the R. That's all. Have a good one...

stripes Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by stripes
Take some heat if you have to, but cowboy up and get it done and done right.
Hmmm, now you're showing the true color of your sox. :)

I'll probably regret this, but what is the true color of my sox?

Jurassic Referee Thu Jan 15, 2004 01:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by stripes
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by stripes
Take some heat if you have to, but cowboy up and get it done and done right.
Hmmm, now you're showing the true color of your sox. :)

I'll probably regret this, but what is the true color of my sox?

Red.

The BoSox used the "cowboy up" thingy as their theme last year.Hope you have more luck with it than they did.

ChuckElias Thu Jan 15, 2004 09:29am

In fact, I'd say that the Sox originated the phrase. Had anyone ever heard it before July or so last year? Not me.

dblref Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
In fact, I'd say that the Sox originated the phrase. Had anyone ever heard it before July or so last year? Not me.
Not quite so fast there my vertically challenged friend. If you ventured south of the Mason-Dixon line (way, way, south), you might hear this expression quite often. I know I did when I grew up down thar. You hear "cowboy up" and "pony up" quite a bit.


ChuckElias Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by dblref
If you ventured south of the Mason-Dixon line (way, way, south), you might hear this expression quite often. I know I did when I grew up down thar. You hear "cowboy up" and "pony up" quite a bit.
Well, then I stand (yes, I am standing!) corrected. As a lifelong <s>Yan</s> (cough, cough, sputter, sputter) Northerner, I'd never heard "cowboy up" before, although "pony up" is common around here.

cmathews Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:03am

Out here in the west I have heard it my whole life. Then again I grew up rodeoing all the time so it shouldn't come as a surprise that I would have heard that term...will that start some other sort of curse for the Sox?? some sort of stealing rallying crys curse or something ;)

stripes Thu Jan 15, 2004 02:11pm

Didn't know that the BoSox used the phrase. If I knew, I would have used it more judiciously, as I would do most anything to avoid association with the hated Red Sox (not to mention all of the AL--get rid of the DH and play real baseball), but being from the western US, cowboy up is a very common phrase.

ChuckElias Fri Jan 16, 2004 09:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by cmathews
Out here in the west I have heard it my whole life. Then again I grew up rodeoing all the time so it shouldn't come as a surprise that I would have heard that term...
I didn't realize it had been around so long, but apparently "cowboy up" was actually copyrighted 30 years ago, much like Pat Riley copyrighted "three-peat". At least, that's what Kevin Millar says: http://sports.espn.go.com/page2/s/questions/millar.html


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