Tie up? (NCAA)

[Jay R]

Here's the situation from a men's college game this afternoon. A4 goes in for a lay up, B5 gets a clean block. The ball never left A4'a hand and he came down with the ball. I was C and the play was in my primary. I immediately called a jump ball when A4 came back to the floor.

After the game, one of my partners agrees with the call and the other doesn't. The latter says they both had to come back down with the ball in order to call a jump ball. I'm pretty sure I got it right. The rule book definition of a jump ball seems to support my interpretation. Any thoughts.

[BigJoe]

If the block by B5 prevented the release by A4 it is definitely a jump ball. If the player released the ball for a try and caught it on the way down, I have nothing. If A4 hits the ball without preventing B5 from releasing the ball on the try and A4 comes down with the ball I have a travel. I am basing my interpretations on Fed rules. I don't have my NCAA book handy. I think the rules are the same.
You definitely don't have to come down holding the ball to have a held ball. The only criteria is if the defender prevented the try by getting a hand on the ball. It would probably be the top of the ball.

[BigJoe]

Sorry, I'm an idiot. The second situation should read if B5 hits the ball and doesn't prevent the ball from being released for a try and A4 comes down with the ball, I have a travel. These are definitely good situations to discuss because they are such "bang-bang" plays and there is no time to think about it before making the call.

[nine01c]

I disagree that you can only determine a jumb ball if and when the player(s) return to the floor. I have called many jump balls while the shooter is in the air with the defender's hand firmly on the ball preventing the release.
On the other hand, a jump ball can also occur even if NO players feet leave the floor. The attempted shot (or pass) does not have to be by an airborne player. Jump ball can result when player keeps feet on the floor. Seems to be a myth that both players have to be in the air.

[Jay R]

Originally posted by nine01c
I disagree that you can only determine a jumb ball if and when the player(s) return to the floor. I have called many jump balls while the shooter is in the air with the defender's hand firmly on the ball preventing the release.
On the other hand, a jump ball can also occur even if NO players feet leave the floor. The attempted shot (or pass) does not have to be by an airborne player. Jump ball can result when player keeps feet on the floor. Seems to be a myth that both players have to be in the air.

I agree with you. The reason I waited until he came back to the floor was more because the play caught me by surprise. When he came back down to the floor, something had to be called.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Jay R
Here's the situation from a men's college game this afternoon. A4 goes in for a lay up, B5 gets a clean block. The ball never left A4'a hand and he came down with the ball. I was C and the play was in my primary. I immediately called a jump ball when A4 came back to the floor.

After the game, one of my partners agrees with the call and the other doesn't. The latter says they both had to come back down with the ball in order to call a jump ball. I'm pretty sure I got it right. The rule book definition of a jump ball seems to support my interpretation. Any thoughts.

"A.R. 27. A1 jumps for a try for field goal. B1 jumps to defend against the try and (a)
touches the ball before it leaves A1’s hand and A1 returns to the floor with the ball
and the ball never loses contact with A1’s hand(s) or (b) the ball loses contact with
A1’s hand(s), A1 retrieves the ball while in the air and returns to the floor in possession
of the ball and begins to dribble or (c) after the ball touches the floor, A1 recovers
the ball and begins to dribble. RULING: In (a), the official shall call a held ball. In
(b) and (c), the play shall be legal. A1 has gained a new possession in both instances." (NCAA 4-35)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by nine01c
I disagree that you can only determine a jumb ball if and when the player(s) return to the floor. I have called many jump balls while the shooter is in the air with the defender's hand firmly on the ball preventing the release.

How do you know the defender has prevented the release before the shooter returns to the floor? What do you do if the player with the ball manages to get off a shot or pass after you've blown the whistle, but before s/he comes down?

[nine01c]

The player being in the air, or not being in the air, is irrelevant. I blow the whistle when I judge that the defender has firmly placed his hand on the ball and prevented the attempted release. Either he prevented it or he didn't. If the player manages to get off a shot or pass after the whistle, too bad. Ball is dead and I have deemed it a jump ball. If it's that questionable of a hold on the ball (not firm), then I will pass on the jump ball until I see what happens. This call is basically instinctual and not that complicated.

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

How do you know the defender has prevented the release before the shooter returns to the floor? What do you do if the player with the ball manages to get off a shot or pass after you've blown the whistle, but before s/he comes down?

JR,
If that happens to me (with two thumbs in the air) I think, "Aw, geez!"
A slow whistle can help that problem; and with the superior athletes on the floor in college games, I recommend letting the play naturally progress.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by nine01c
I blow the whistle when I judge that the defender has firmly placed his hand on the ball and prevented the attempted release. Either he prevented it or he didn't. If the player manages to get off a shot or pass after the whistle, too bad.

That's exactly my point, and exactly why I don't agree with you. If the player manages to get off a pass or shot before the shooter comes down, the defender hasn't prevented anything, imo.

I agree with mick. Hold off on the whistle(if you can), and let the play finish.