The Official Forum - Kick Ball on AP Throw-in

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- - Kick Ball on AP Throw-in (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/11565-kick-ball-ap-throw.html)

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
The AP throw-in ends and the arrow is changed when B touches the ball, with a kick in this case.

A then gets the ball for a throw-in because of the kick. The AP thropw-in has ended.

I don't know how I missed this thread, but post #3 on page one (the one above) is the one with the right answer, all based on the definitions.

The arrow is changed when the throw-in ends. The throw-in ends when the ball is touched on the floor. The kick is that touch on the floor. Change the arrow to B. Award a throw-in (because of the kick) to A.

No unfair advantage given -- the throw-in is no longer an AP throw-in so after A completes the throw in the arrow will still be set to B, just like on a "normal" AP throw-in.

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

The penalty isn't doubled, if the arrow isn't changed. They don't get the arrow taken away from them. If A inbounds the ball legally, even if B gets the ball legally, A has then used the arrow, and B gets the arrow.

What happens if B kicks the ball on the inbounds is that A gets penalized. Not because A made a bad basketball play, but because B violated. Why am I the only one that thinks that's unfair?

It's an exact parallel to losing or keeping the privilege of running the baseline. If B kicks the ball on the inbounds pass after a made basket, A gets that privilege back. How is keeping the arrow any different?

How does A get penalized? They've still got the ball. They would never have had it without the arrow. They haven't lost the arrow, they've already used it.
With the baseline, the new rule makes sure that A doesn't actually lose anything due to B's violation. With a kick after an AP, A doesn't lose a thing. They've still got the ball, and they got it due to the arrow.

Adam

In any other situation with an AP throw-in, they haven't used the arrow until the ball is legally inbounded. In this case the ball has not been legally inbounded, through no fault of their own, yet they lose the arrow. Which IS the same as the privilege of running the baseline. They don't lose the privilege because the opponent violates. If they lose the arrow on the kick, they are penalized for what THE OPPONENT did. They haven't used the arrow, they've had it taken away.

Not legally inbounded but when the throw-in ends, as per 6-3.

A simple way to clarify this rule is to add the word
LEGALLY.

The throw in ends when the ball is "LEGALLY" touched inbounds.

Or the clock cannot start until the ball is "LEGALLY" touched. (takes care of BBallref's scenario)

Juules,

I had a problem with this rule at first as well.
But I have reconciled in my mind (scary) that B really does not gain an advantage by kicking the ball.

A still gets the opportunity to throw the ball in due to the kick,(already stated by someone else) and they would lose the arrow anyway after a completed throw in.

I do see how your fouling scenario could yield a "possible" advantage by stealing the arrow, but is it truly an advantage? If the most they gain is posession of the arrow, that's a small reward to say the least. The game may, (most likely would) conclude without B using the AP arrow that they "stole".
Just my two cents.

Quote:

Originally posted by DrakeM
A simple way to clarify this rule is to add the word
LEGALLY.

The throw in ends when the ball is "LEGALLY" touched inbounds.

Or the clock cannot start until the ball is "LEGALLY" touched. (takes care of BBallref's scenario)

But...it doesn't say that. :p

But I agree that, considering the present "run the endline" rule, they should have just re-worded all rules that pertain to "legally" inbounding the ball.

But...until they do. ;)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I think in this case, doing as you suggest would actually penalize B for A's bad throw. Had A1 passed the ball to a teammate, we wouldn't have this problem.

I don't think this is a valid blanket statement. A's (bounce?) pass could have been the perfect pass for that sitch - we can't penalize A for what /we/ think is a bad pass.

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Why am I the only one that thinks that's unfair?

As Mrs. Tillman, my 11th grade English teacher used to ask, "Who said life was fair?" :)

Try this play:

B 56, A 55. 1.0 remaining to be played.

A inbounds the ball.

B kicks the ball.

Official starts clock,

Official blows whistle for violation.

Time expires before timer can stop clock.

Game over.
__________________________________________________ ____

Did B gain an advantage by kicking the ball? Yes.

Is there anything we can do about it? No.

"Who said life was fair?" :)

All the more reason everybody should use Precision Time. (tm)

LOL

Why did you let B56 into the game?

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm
Why did you let B56 into the game?

Score, B 56, A 55

Been eatin' too much green eggs and ham, SamIAm. :)

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Tony -- been out in the snow too long?

Thanks a lot Juules.

I get up this morning, look out the window.

It's snowing.

And it's you're fault! :D

It doesn't snow here.

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Tony -- been out in the snow too long?

Thanks a lot Juules.

I get up this morning, look out the window.

It's snowing.

And it's you're fault! :D

It doesn't snow here.

Sorry, Tony. I forgot to warn you that my spiritual gift is prophecy...

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/pope.gif

Then, from hence forth, I decree that you will be forever known as...

...snowmaker, the white wizard!

http://www.gifs.net/animate/achilly7.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
the white wizard!

Hmmmm, somebody been to the movies recently? :)

Best movie I've seen in quite a while

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
the white wizard!

Hmmmm, somebody been to the movies recently? :)

I would think that there could be some "hobbitses" in your ancestry. :p

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/pope.gif

Then, from hence forth, I decree that you will be forever known as...

...snowmaker, the white wizard!

http://www.gifs.net/animate/achilly7.gif

Where did you find that flattering picture? I'm not nearly that attractive.

BBallref,

My point was that The NF, SHOULD make that simple clarification.