Men's vs. Women's rules

ChuckElias · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 11:49am

There have been a couple of threads recently where the differences between men's and women's rules or mechanics has caused some confusion.

Leaving my own feelings about the differences aside, it seems pretty clear to me that the women are consciously and deliberately trying to make their game more like the pro game. Their rule interpretations about defenders under the basket, their mechanics changes over the last couple years, etc., all move toward the pro ranks.

My question is, and I mean this in all seriousness, why don't they just adopt WNBA rules and mechanics? Has there been any discussion of this? You'd have to tweak them a little (number of personal fouls before disqualification, length of shot clock, distance of the 3-point arc), but they're already tweaking the heck out of the NCAA rules. Why not just go all the way?

Again, this is a serious question and I'm wondering if it's been discussed at all by the rules committee, and what the drawbacks would be.

Bart Tyson · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 12:04pm

I think they have changed things about as far as they can. And I might add the changes are for the better.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 12:49pm

If you notice, many of the WNBA Officials work D1 Basketball. And many of the supervisors of D1 Women's basketball, were or are currently WNBA officials. That is the reason all the mechanics and rules changes in many opinions, are because so many officials have direct ties to the WNBA. This is even more of the reason I hate Women's mechanics. One of the main reason I stopped doing those games all togther this year.

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 12:55pm

As someone who started officiating women's college basketball 29 years ago, I don't disagree with anything that has been said already, but I am going to stop now before I get started on a rant.

MTD, Sr.

bob jenkins · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
There have been a couple of threads recently where the differences between men's and women's rules or mechanics has caused some confusion.

Leaving my own feelings about the differences aside, it seems pretty clear to me that the women are consciously and deliberately trying to make their game more like the pro game. Their rule interpretations about defenders under the basket, their mechanics changes over the last couple years, etc., all move toward the pro ranks.

My question is, and I mean this in all seriousness, why don't they just adopt WNBA rules and mechanics? Has there been any discussion of this? You'd have to tweak them a little (number of personal fouls before disqualification, length of shot clock, distance of the 3-point arc), but they're already tweaking the heck out of the NCAA rules. Why not just go all the way?

Again, this is a serious question and I'm wondering if it's been discussed at all by the rules committee, and what the drawbacks would be.

Marcy Weston made some comments on this (especially as relates to mechanics) in the most recent RefMag -- iirc, something to the effect of "they are the best refs, so we'd be foolish not to borrow from them."

rainmaker · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 02:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
My question is, and I mean this in all seriousness, why don't they just adopt WNBA rules and mechanics? Has there been any discussion of this? You'd have to tweak them a little (number of personal fouls before disqualification, length of shot clock, distance of the 3-point arc), but they're already tweaking the heck out of the NCAA rules. Why not just go all the way?

Again, this is a serious question and I'm wondering if it's been discussed at all by the rules committee, and what the drawbacks would be.

Marcy Weston made some comments on this (especially as relates to mechanics) in the most recent RefMag -- iirc, something to the effect of "they are the best refs, so we'd be foolish not to borrow from them."

[/B][/QUOTE]

So Chuck's question is a very good one: Why borrow when you could just buy wholesale?

ChuckElias · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 03:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
"they are the best refs, so we'd be foolish not to borrow from them."

I don't disagree with that, and I don't have any problem with using WNBA officials in the NCAA. But has there been any discussion of adopting the WNBA rules and mechanics package? Again, serious question; I'm just curious.

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 03:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I don't disagree with that, and I don't have any problem with using WNBA officials in the NCAA. But has there been any discussion of adopting the WNBA rules and mechanics package? Again, serious question; I'm just curious.

I think the NCAA wants to maintain some individuality. Even though the WNBA and NCAA Women use similar officials, there still is some consideration for keep some things separate. At least that is what I hear thru the grapevine and officials that work a the D1 level and those either WNBA canidates or current WNBA officials and even assignors of Women's basketball (many levels). This of course is all talk and does not mean anything until something is done. But it sure seems they want to completely adopt the WNBA/NBA way of doing things.

Peace

BktBallRef · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 03:38pm

They are in bed together?

Nah, it's probably best that I just leave this alone!

Dan_ref · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 03:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
They are in bed together?

Nah, it's probably best that I just leave this alone!

I know I was!

(Lemme tell ya, it was NOT easy!)

Dubby · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 04:29pm

The NCAA womens mechanics are similar to the WNBA. But the NBA mechanics are more closely related to the WNBA/women than they are to the NCAA men.

In the past few years there have been several changes in both the men's and women's mechanics. MOST of these changes (going table side after a foul call, getting rid of '*** to glass' under the basket) occur in the women's game first and then are adopted by the men's side. I'm not saying one is better than the other but that is the way it's been. In very few, if any instances do the women follow the men in mechanics changes. Some might argue that the women's game is more progressive when it comes to officiating. Can anyone name a recent mechanics change that occured in both men's and women's where the women followed the men's lead?

I'm not trying to start a fight here, just posting some personal opinions.

BktBallRef · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 04:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dubby
The NCAA womens mechanics are similar to the WNBA. But the NBA mechanics are more closely related to the WNBA/women than they are to the NCAA men.

Dubby, that' the point of the post.

WNBA mechanics came from NBA mechanics.

Women's NCAA mechanics are now coming from the WNBA.

The starting point is the NBA, not the WNBA or the NCAA.

I can think of one exception. If memory serves, the NF was having the L administer both FTs without the C entering the lane before NCAA Men started doing it.

Dubby · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 04:43pm

Okay, then I misinterpreted the point. Normally when a topic like this comes up it's because people are complaining about women's programs. So many men's officials are stuck on their mechanics being the best and/or only way to do things (at least where I'm from). I didn't think the original post was meant as a compliment....my bad.

BktBallRef · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 05:26pm

Knowing Chuck as I do, I don't think he thinks that way. It was seem that he was simply questioning whether the Women's NCAA have looked at adopting the same rules that the WNBA uses, since the officiating is obviously heading in that direction.

That's all.

JRutledge · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 05, 2004, 05:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dubby
Okay, then I misinterpreted the point. Normally when a topic like this comes up it's because people are complaining about women's programs. So many men's officials are stuck on their mechanics being the best and/or only way to do things (at least where I'm from). I didn't think the original post was meant as a compliment....my bad.

Who cares whose mechanics are the best. I would not watch either an NCAA Women's game or a WNBA game. Chuck is asking a legitimate question here (I cannot believe I just said that

) And it is clear that the NCAA Men's are very reluctant to follow the NBA way of officiating. Even the changes that the Men have made in the past few years, have been to keep their identity. On the flip side the Women's side, whether direct or indirect have tried to adopt everything the NBA/WNBA are doing. That is a common observation and I think Chuck asking the question is very appropriate.

Peace