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Quote:

Originally posted by SMEngmann
I still don't see how it benefits anyone to talk to fans, especially if you draw attention to yourself and the fan. What if the fan who had been complaining about a bad call responded with some sort of demeaning remark when you questioned him about it? What do you do then? You either let the abuse get more personal or you've just baited the fan into an ejection. Worse, you could get yourself into a confrontation later in the game. In all cases, the only benefit is the reduction of a minor annoyance ("that was a bad call" is hardly abusive), but the cost of escalation is much greater and the focus is taken away from the players and put on you and a fan. Some officials can pull this off, but most should just ignore the fan and act professionally. Most of the time they're paying to be there while you're getting paid.

I agree overall with SME, additionally, there are far more 'bad' things that can happen by addressing fans than the potential for any good. Why take the chance? I mean it-bad things- can cover the gamut (sp?). Crank down the antenna and move on.

[Edited by davidw on Jan 2nd, 2004 at 03:50 AM]

I hope that was a joke.

Quote:

Originally posted by Forksref
I hope that was a joke.

You hope what was a joke?

I hope jr calling two fouls on 34 was a joke.

Re: Re: Re: Do not put words in my mouth.

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra

Jeff,I have not been on this forum that long,so I'm not being a hypoctrite.

Blindzebra,
I have been on this board for over 6 years. So what I speak, you might not be aware of.

That's pretty impressive since it's only existed for ~4.5 years and the member list shows you joined in June of 2000. ;)

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra

There is a huge difference between picking your spot and talking to a fan and talking to one,then intentionally calling 2 fouls "instantly" on their kid,then "slyly pointing" at the fan just to "stick it to him" by "abusing
your whistle!"

BZ,

This is not the end of the world. This is not the worst thing in the world as well. I do not advocate what was done, but I also do not look at it as a tragedy or something to get overly excited about. If the fan did not want anyone to "stick something to him," then act like an adult and do not be stupid enough to let it be known that who your kid is. And I did not read that he just called phantom fouls on the kid either. He might have not given him the "benefit of the doubt," that many of us give a kid under normal circumstances. I know at least for me, when a kid is a problem, by his own actions and complains alot, I know I will not bend over backwards to not call fouls on him. I might call fouls that I might have passed on, because that is a better way to "send a message" than just T'ing the kid up. But usually I never have to do that, because I have no problem of stoping a game and addressing any situation that is a problem in my games during dead ball periods. And usually the FT Administration is a great way to do that. But that is me. I did not read that JR, made up anything. He just said that he called 2 fouls on his kid. Which could have been very warranted and might be why the kid is a knucklehead, just like his father.

Peace

I agree with you. What JR did may or may not have been a bad thing. It may be that those two fouls were entirely legit...coincidental.

Cameron,

Do you agree with JR's comment: "Sometimes you have to abuse the whistle."?

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
White couldn't have lost this game if they'd have walked off the court at the end of the third quarter.

Middle of second quarter, green gets a break, passes the ball downcourt to player all alone who bobbles the ball a couple of times, dribbles once and actually made a lay-up. I called nothing. White fans and coach go crazy wanting a <A TITLE="Click for more information about travel" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||travel|AA1VDw">travel</A>. I said, "Coach, she didn't have control of the ball." He says, "I know she didn't have control, but it's still a travel." Sheez...

P.S. Brilliant dad in stands yells, "What rule book are you using anyway?"

Back to your original post Rainmaker, I would have to guess that white coach maybe one of those "otherwise" guys, huh?

jr did not just call two fouls:

and slyly pointed to his dad in the stands. he was quiet the rest of the game.

I read some intent to punish in his post.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Do not put words in my mouth.

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust

I agree with you. What JR did may or may not have been a bad thing. It may be that those two fouls were entirely legit...coincidental. [/B]

I'd agree that it was a possibility, but he used a couple of phrases that don't allow for that. First and foremost, "abuse the whistle." That's never a good thing, and the attitude is awful. And Rut, it's one thing to joke about it, kinda like joking about not allowing an overtime, it's another to actually abuse the whistle. The "comebacks" thread is another example of this.

Secondly, by "slying pointing" to the Dad, and noting that the Dad was then quiet for the rest of the game, he has at least given the impression to Dad that the fouls were called because of the fan's comments.

This behavior is not acceptable for officials, because he has, at best, given the fan the impression of vindictiveness. At best, it's a ref on a power trip. Unless the whole post was a joke, he needs to reexamine his ego and leave it at the door.
I hope the Dad in question called the league to complain.

Snaqwells

Quote:

Originally posted by davidw

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
White couldn't have lost this game if they'd have walked off the court at the end of the third quarter.

Middle of second quarter, green gets a break, passes the ball downcourt to player all alone who bobbles the ball a couple of times, dribbles once and actually made a lay-up. I called nothing. White fans and coach go crazy wanting a <A TITLE="Click for more information about travel" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||travel|AA1VDw">travel</A>. I said, "Coach, she didn't have control of the ball." He says, "I know she didn't have control, but it's still a travel." Sheez...

P.S. Brilliant dad in stands yells, "What rule book are you using anyway?"

Back to your original post Rainmaker, I would have to guess that white coach maybe one of those "otherwise" guys, huh?

I didn't think of this juxtaposition when I put up my new sig line. Hilarious!

Quote:

Originally posted by davidw
Cameron,

Do you agree with JR's comment: "Sometimes you have to abuse the whistle."?

No.

All I'm saying is that he didn't give enough information for me to judege what he actually did. It may be entirely possible that the kid subsequently clobbered an opponent two times warranting the fouls.

What he did after that (interaction with the father), though, I do not agree with in any case.

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Quote:

Originally posted by davidw
Cameron,

Do you agree with JR's comment: "Sometimes you have to abuse the whistle."?

No.

All I'm saying is that he didn't give enough information for me to judege what he actually did. It may be entirely possible that the kid subsequently clobbered an opponent two times warranting the fouls.

What he did after that (interaction with the father), though, I do not agree with in any case.

gottcha.

Re: Let us not all get so high and righteous.

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Because if the fan is stupid enough to tell the official which kid is his on the floor, then he deserved to get picked on.

That's just silly. The son is not accountable for the sins of his father.

Quote:

And whether JR purposely called fouls on a kid or not, they still think we are out to get them, no matter what we do.

"Far better to let people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." --unknown

Been around before 2000.

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust

That's pretty impressive since it's only existed for ~4.5 years and the member list shows you joined in June of 2000. ;)

This board has been around about before that. This board had a major crash and everyone had to register again because all the previous information was completely lost. So Tony has way more posts than that. I came on this board back in the late 90s originally. Many of the highest posters have been around on both this board and McGriffs for almost the entire time I have been officiating. Which this is my 8th year in basketball.

Peace

Whooooooooo caaaarrreeesssssss!!!!

Penn Coach,

You can call me all kind of names you want to. At the end of the day, nothing JR did affected anything I do or affects any game I will do in the future. The only person it hurt was the kid and JR if anyone thinks he did something on purpose. The rest of us will live our lives. No different than if Pete Rose is in the Hall of Fame or not. Who the hell cares?

Peace