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  #61 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 30, 2003, 01:16pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
In your last two posts to this thread you made two comments that I find troubling.

I agree with you that the play we have been discussing in this thread while possible, the probability of it happening is very very small. I have found that complicated theoretical plays is a very good teaching tool, because it requires an official to break the play down into its components. When an official breaksdown the play, he sees how definitions and rules need to be applied and in the order that they need to be applied.
And that is fine. But I would rather have officials focus on things that are specifically covered in the casebook and what and what official ruling are out there, not what was pulled from the sky. Are we going to start asking what happens if a UFO comes from the sky while a shot is made and what to do next? Focus on the rules that are in front of you. Focus on the rules that have some basis in reality. This play is not reality and does not have a "reality" ruling from the parties that make the rules. So that is why you can do what you want.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
The more troubling comment is that people are going to do whatever they feel like doing. I can tell you from experience that too many basketball officials have that attitude.
This is not even covered in the casebook or rulebook for that matter. So I am not really sure I follow you. That is why 2-3 is there. And if someone pulls this stunt, I am going to make it right. I will be damned if I let a team possibly win a game because they found a loophole to get around. And until the NF or NCAA for that matter comes up with a specific way to handle it, that is what I am doing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Who cares what is in the rules and and casebook, lets do whatever will get me tournament votes and more games next year.
No Mark, let us all take the word of some guy, who none of us know, none of us will ever meet or will never have any influence on what the NF does or what my state does and listen to that guy. Yeah right!!! I do not care what IAABO thinks about this issue. I do not live in an IAABO state. I am not the official that took the picture with Lebron James, IAABO cannot punish me for my actions. It would be like someone from IBM telling me what to do and I work for DELL. And yes Mark, it is about the tournament games and advancement for me and many other officials. I do not officiate, just to say I officiated. I want to advance and have to follow the lead of those that are over me. If I want to have the opportunity to do so, I am not going to be listening to the word of someone from IAABO. Sorry, that is not how I work and many others. Just like I am still waiting for the IHSA Clinicians to tell me I have to tell the coaches about their timeout situation which I took heat for on this board. But that has not happen yet either, but I remember those telling me what I should focus on and what was important. This to me is the same kind of discussion. And that is personally disturbing to me, because you are worried about something that might never happen in your career and I am waiting for someone to say this did. Being that I am the King of Opinion, all you are giving at this point is just that. If you ask your boy, he will give his opinion on the subject as well. If this is such an important play, then the NF will put something in the casebook. And when they do not, that is what 2-3 is for.

Now that is my opinion.

Peace
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 30, 2003, 04:08pm
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"FIBA governs specific competitions and leagues. But if a league or group chooses not to be apart of FIBA, I am sure that is possible to have their own set of rules to participate under? Is this not correct?"

You are definitely correct in this statement. Nobody really has to referee to the rules. The rules are there as a guide and is referred to in certain situations. You know this and I know this.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 30, 2003, 04:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by NICK
"FIBA governs specific competitions and leagues. But if a league or group chooses not to be apart of FIBA, I am sure that is possible to have their own set of rules to participate under? Is this not correct?"

You are definitely correct in this statement. Nobody really has to referee to the rules. The rules are there as a guide and is referred to in certain situations. You know this and I know this.
That's not quite what Rut was getting at, I think. His point is not that referees can disregard the rules, only that various leagues (and nations) are free to adopt whatever rules they choose. FIBA or NFHS have no jurisdiction over those leagues who are unwilling to submit to them.

aw
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2003, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Over the years (32 years to be exact) I have had a sixth player run onto the court illegally, because he/she thought that they were supposed to be in the game. Everytime this has happened, my partner(s) and I have come to the conclusion that charging two technical fouls is overkill. If the official sees the player illegally enter the court, then this is the technical foul that should be charged. If the official does not see that player illegally enter the court but sees six players on the court, then charge the team with a technical foul for too many players. But it has been my belief and the opinion of many of my friends that two technical fouls are overkill.

In general - you're right, this is overkill.

However, I tend to think that this type of play is overkill, inappropriate, and completely out of line for the game of basketball - so I'd charge the team with every T I could stick on them.

Kinda makes me wish for football . . . . .
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2003, 11:05am
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I think that there is actually time left on the clock when the foul occurs. I would T the kid for coming on without being beckoned. Give the Intentional Foul. Administer the four shots and give team A a throw in to try a for another two.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2003, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally posted by onthecourts
I think that there is actually time left on the clock when the foul occurs. I would T the kid for coming on without being beckoned. Give the Intentional Foul. Administer the four shots and give team A a throw in to try a for another two.
Well, first, I can't call an intentional foul because there's no contact. Second, if you did it anyway, it's 3 FTs for intentionally fouling a 3 point shooter, not 2.

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  #67 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2003, 02:13pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:

No Mark, let us all take the word of some guy, who none of us know, none of us will ever meet or will never have any influence on what the NF does or what my state does and listen to that guy. Yeah right!!! I do not care what IAABO thinks about this issue. I do not live in an IAABO state. I am not the official that took the picture with Lebron James, IAABO cannot punish me for my actions. It would be like someone from IBM telling me what to do and I work for DELL. And yes Mark, it is about the tournament games and advancement for me and many other officials. I do not officiate, just to say I officiated. I want to advance and have to follow the lead of those that are over me. If I want to have the opportunity to do so, I am not going to be listening to the word of someone from IAABO. Sorry, that is not how I work and many others. Just like I am still waiting for the IHSA Clinicians to tell me I have to tell the coaches about their timeout situation which I took heat for on this board. But that has not happen yet either, but I remember those telling me what I should focus on and what was important. This to me is the same kind of discussion. And that is personally disturbing to me, because you are worried about something that might never happen in your career and I am waiting for someone to say this did. Being that I am the King of Opinion, all you are giving at this point is just that. If you ask your boy, he will give his opinion on the subject as well. If this is such an important play, then the NF will put something in the casebook. And when they do not, that is what 2-3 is for.

Now that is my opinion.

Peace

Rut:

As my 10 year old would say: Take a chill pill.

Happy New Year

MTD, Sr.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 31, 2003, 03:28pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Lightbulb Chill pill?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.


Rut:

As my 10 year old would say: Take a chill pill.

Happy New Year

MTD, Sr.
I can see your 10 year old is not hip with what is going on in todays world. That term played out in the 80s. He must have been watching VH1 lately? Because I have not heard that phrase since I was in High School, which was before you son was born. But then again, not sure there are many urban influences in Ohio.

But I am not the one trying to tell the board what should be called based on your opinion and that opinion of someone we do not care to know. I guess Clarett thought that the world cared about what he thought too?

Go Blue!!!

Peace
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