Over and Back

myredst1100 · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 18, 2003, 09:35pm

Player A1 has the ball in the backcourt. Player A1 throws a pass to A2 who has was standing in the front court, but when the pass was made jumped Caught the ball in the air and landed in the backcourt.

Is this over and back? I say no, because Team A never established team control in the front court. There are those in my association that say because A2 was last touching in the frontcourt Team A established team control then, but the ball and player were never in the front court to establish control there

mick · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 18, 2003, 09:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by myredst1100
Player A1 has the ball in the backcourt. Player A1 throws a pass to A2 who has was standing in the front court, but when the pass was made jumped Caught the ball in the air and landed in the backcourt.

Is this over and back? I say no, because Team A never established team control in the front court. There are those in my association that say because A2 was last touching in the frontcourt Team A established team control then, but the ball and player were never in the front court to establish control there

myredst1100,
Welcome to the Forum.
It would be good for you to listen more closely to "those in (your) association that say because A2 was last touching in the frontcourt Team A established team control".

mick

mplagrow · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 18, 2003, 09:46pm

Rule 4, Section 35, Art. 3 states the location of an airborne player with reference to [frontcourt/backcourt] is the same as at the time such player was last in contact with the floor or an extension of the floor, such as a bleacher. Over and back.

[Edited by mplagrow on Dec 18th, 2003 at 08:48 PM]

BktBallRef · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 18, 2003, 10:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by myredst1100
Player A1 has the ball in the backcourt. Player A1 throws a pass to A2 who has was standing in the front court, but when the pass was made jumped Caught the ball in the air and landed in the backcourt.

Is this over and back? I say no, because Team A never established team control in the front court.

Sure he did. A1 established team control. A2 is in the FC until he lands in the BC. Therefore, he was in the FC when he caught the ball.

BTW, it's not over and back. It's a backcourt violation.

Welcome aboard!

ChuckElias · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 10:30am

Anybody got the link for the backcourt quiz for myred?

red · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 01:46pm

So, what would be the sign? Same as over and back?

bob jenkins · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 01:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by red
So, what would be the sign? Same as over and back?

There's no sign for "over and back."

You would, however, give the backcourt violation sign.

mick · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 02:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by red
So, what would be the sign? Same as over and back?

There's no sign for "over and back."

You would, however, give the backcourt violation sign.

Au contraire!
The signal is there! Over...back...point.
It's the printed words that are missing.

mick

SteveF · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 02:18pm

Better check NFHS basket ball rule book signal chart. Sure looks like the signal is called the over and back signal. Granted that signal is used for a backcourt violation but seems the NF is making the terms synonomus.

TriggerMN · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 02:34pm

I may be way out of range here, but I kind of figured that the winky smiley from BktBallRef was meant to mean he was giving a sarcastic comment. But I could be wrong. I'm an official, after all.

Lotto · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 02:51pm

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out, but team A does not have to establish team control in the front court to have a back court violation. You need 4 ingredients for a back court violation:

Team A has control.
The ball attains front court status.
Team A is the last to touch (before the ball attains back court status).
Team A is the first to touch (after the ball attains back court status).

Team A has control, the ball attains front court status when A2 catches it and attains back court status when A2 lands in the back court. A2 is the last to touch, A2 is the first to touch, so TWEET!

Another situation: A1, standing in the back court, throws a bounce pass to A2. The ball bounces in the front court. A2, who is also standing in the back court, catches the ball. TWEET! This is the classic example of a back court violation where team A never has control in the front court.

Adam · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 06:07pm

I think you're wrong, Lotto. In your final situation, Team A has control in the front court. The ball is in their control, the ball is in the front court. Therefore, Team A has control in the front court. There may not have been player control in the frontcourt, but that's not necessary for a back court violation.

Adam

BktBallRef · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 19, 2003, 07:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto
I'm surprised no one has pointed this out, but team A does not have to establish team control in the front court to have a back court violation.

It really wasn't necessary to point it out. Even though TC in the FC is not necessary, their was TC in the FC in this play.

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
I think you're wrong, Lotto. In your final situation, Team A has control in the front court. The ball is in their control, the ball is in the front court. Therefore, Team A has control in the front court. There may not have been player control in the frontcourt, but that's not necessary for a back court violation.

I suggest you read the play again, Adam.