A1 is at the spot for a baseline throw-in.

(a)He throws the ball but B1 touches the ball after the release, but before it crosses the baseline plane. The ball hits the floor OOB. The official awards the ball back to A at the spot where the ball touched OOB.

(b)Before he throws the ball, B1 touches the ball while still in the possession. The official assesses a technical foul to B1.

Is the official correct?

C'mon folks! 18 views and no replies!! :)

I did post this for a reason.

Where's that damn woodchuck when you need him? ;)

OK OK OK, I'll be your straight man.

yes and yes.

Now what?

:p

(a) should be a warning for delay of game, then a oob
(b) should be a t, if b reached through the boundary line to foul a

Jeez, it's only been up for 15 minutes, and I'm getting blasted!! :)

And I believe that the correct answer to both questions is "yes", the official is correct.

In the past, I have said that (a) was also a technical foul. But the unannounced change to this year's book, makes me think that it's no longer illegal to touch the ball in that situation.

Thank you, Chuck. :)

And how long have you been aware of the "unannounced change to this year's book?" Were you keeping it a secret? And what was your reaction when you found it? "Damn! He was right!! SOB!" :D

I just found it this morning! I danced a jig, did the Icky Shuffle, took a sharpie out of my sock and autogrphed my computer, and then, pulled a cell phone out and called my wife to tell her what I had just found! :D

Looks like Tony's hittin' the holiday punch a little early this year.

Play (a):

NFHS: It is legal for B1 to touch the ball after A1 has released the ball for the throw-in and the ball is still on the out-of-bounds side of the boundary line. Out-of-bounds off of B1. Team A gets a designated spot throw-in closet to the spot where the ball touched out-of-bounds.

NCAA: It is a violation for B1 to break the plane of the boundary line before the throw-in crosses completely through the plane of the boundary plane.


Play (b):

NFHS: Technical foul charged to B1. If Team B has not been warned for breaking the plane during a throw-in a warning will also be issued to Team B.

NCAA: Technical foul charged to B1.

I was aware of the change a few weeks ago, when Bob J mentioned it over on the McGriff board. But I didn't have my books at that point. Then I forgot about it until a couple weeks ago when somebody brought it up over here. So I pulled out the book, looked at the Penalty section, and saw the change. No, I wasn't keeping it a secret. See http://www.officialforum.com/thread/11134

And my reaction was that the rules committee realized that previously Camron and I were right; under the old ruling it would've been a T. They didn't want it to be a T, so they changed the wording of the penalty, so that the play is now legal.

You can expect to be fined by Paul Tagliabue. :)

For those that may not know, we have debated this play for years on the forum.

A1 is at the spot for a baseline throw-in.
He throws the ball but B1 touches the ball after the release, but before it crosses the baseline plane. The ball hits the floor OOB. Is this a technical foul or simply a violation by B1 for deflecting the ball OOB.

Many thought it was a T, because the penalty section of 9-2 stated, "If an opponent(s) of the thrower reaches through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touches or dislodges the ball, a technical foul shall be charged to the offender. No warning for delay required."

Still others felt that it was not a T, the "touches or dislodges the ball" meant that the ball had to still be in the possession of the thrower for a T to be warranted. After all, the rule allows the defender to break the plane after the ball is released. What's the prupose of breaking the plane if not to touch the ball? My buddy, the woodchuck, was on one side of this discussion and I was on the other.

In any case, there is an "unannounced change to this year's book?"

If an opponent(s) of the thrower reaches through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touches or dislodges the ball while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line (as in 7-5-7), a technical foul shall be charged to the offender. No warning for delay required.

Now, I can go to my grave a happy man. :)

AH! How did I miss that thread? I think I read the first post and Bob's reply and said the heck with it.

Well, now I'm embarassed. But I'll get over it! :D

I was right! I was right! I was right!

Sorry, my wife says this all the time, so I never get to! ;)

You still don't. You weren't right, but the rules committee liked your interpretation better than the actual one. The rule as written required a technical foul. The rules committee realized this, and decided it was too severe a penalty (like a T for swinging the elbows), so they changed the rule (even tho they didn't announce it). This was not a clarification, like the "not taking the ball OOB before the throw-in" question. They actually had to change the penalty section of the rule in order to get the rule to say what they thought was more appropriate.

Honestly, I don't really care. But I really do believe that the old wording required the T. It was a fun discussion, tho. :)

[Edited by ChuckElias on Dec 16th, 2003 at 11:34 AM]

Actually on (b), I see the answer as "not necessarily", you did not specify whether the ball was on the out of bounds side of the plane or if A1 had stuck it across the plane, in which case B1's touching would be legal.

In the thread Chuck referenced, I wondered if reaching a consensus on this call might be possible on this board....it seems like we just might be approaching that consensus!

I secretly suspect that Tony is like this much of the time ;)