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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:00pm
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Boys varsity. B playing a 2/3 zone. Everytime B sets up in zone, B1 shouts at player A with ball: "Shoot the ball!" "Come on, shoot the ball!" Ball is passed around parimeter with B1 carrying on with his "Shoot the ball!", sometimes almost screaming it.
I guess the thing that bothered me most about it was his demeanor. He had, what I would call, an 'ugly scowl' on his face and his tone was, IMO, a taunting/baiting one. At a break in the action, I walked up to him and said basically, "I don't have a problem with you saying 'shoot the ball', but I think you are approaching taunting behavior." He gave me a 'what me look?!' and asked what I meant. I said, "I think you know what I mean. No taunting." He gave me a nod and I said, "Thanks." There was a time out soon thereafter, and I informed my partner of my conversation with B (who, incidently, was one of the captains). My partner got a quizzical look, and began to caution me; baically saying he didn't think my warning was appropriate. B definitely toned down his shouting of 'shoot the ball' etc. And we had no other problems during the balance of the game. My partner and I discussd it afterwards a little and he still disagreed with me regarding the warning. My question is, what are your thoughts on this type of behavior? Does it in any of your opinions, fall into the class of taunting/baiting? Which was one of the reason I chose to talk with him; the inclusion of Taunting and Baiting as a Point of Emphasis this year. Curious for some feedback. Thanks. 
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:10pm
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We sometimes play a 1-3-1 zone in which we cheat toward good shooters and away from weaker shooters. I teach my players to encourage opponents to take outside shots, even to the extent of telling someone "shoot that", not with malicious intent, but the desire of our defense to make them take a low-percentage shot. If we can goad someone into taking a bad shot, what's wrong with that?
__________________
Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out. -- John Wooden
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:20pm
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I understand the basis for the goading, the taking of a poor percentage shot. My concern was B1 was trying to compensate for his teams weak play, by screaming--repeatedly his "Shoot..." in, what I thought was a taunting demeanor. It was loud, continuous and the manner I previously described.
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:25pm
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Quote:
An intense ballplayer will often have a "scowl" on his face. You are much more sensitive than I. IMO, your explanation was quite weak for a high school to understand, but then, so was your stance. mick
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:25pm
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David,
I think you have it right. If you feel he's taunting the player you did right by talking to the player. He's not playing the game according to the spirit in which it was intended to be played. IMOHO
__________________
"Do I smell the revolting stench of self-esteem?" Mr. Marks (John Lovitz, in The Producers)
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:30pm
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My feeling is that opponents shouldn't be talking to each other period, unless it's a sincere offer of congratulations or something like that.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:42pm
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I look at it as something other than taunting/baiting. I see it as terrible sportsmanship and should be addressed accordingly. "Talk to your teammates, not your opponents."
__________________
"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated. It satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening-it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented." Arnold Palmer
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:42pm
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My thought is that if it's continuous (in this case it was) and loud, it gets to be intimidating. That's taunting. If you're talking about goading someone to shoot, fine, but do it quietly and occasionally. I'll warn a player first, because I recognize that not all refs will call it that way. I called a lane violation last week on B3 for repeatedly asking the guy across the lane to get the shooter. Called it early.
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 03:07pm
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rule book
10-3. A player shall not:
Art. 7. Comit an unsportsmanlike foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts of conduct such as: c. Baiting or taunting an opponent. Sounds clear enough to me. He wasn't yelling to distract. It was clearly baiting.
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 03:22pm
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Quote:
I understand the facial expression we often see in the course of competition. IMO, B1's went beyond that brought on by his intensity. Realizing this, was another reason I chose to warn rather than penalize. I should also say I was trying to keep my conversation short-- the length of breaks in action dictate that. And in my judgement, based on body language etc. he knew what I was referring to. Which I think was borne out by his response: the nod. I certainly took into account his age as well as all the other circumstances of our communication: time, place, time constraints etc. But, i appreciate your feedback. I was curios whether others would feel more as my partner did. Thank you.
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 03:52pm
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Quote:
You paint an ugly picture. Maybe I'm askin' him to stop, too!  mick
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 03:59pm
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I have to agree that this could be considered unsporting. As Chuck wrote, a player has no business talking to an opponent in this manner. Yelling "BALL! BALL! BALL!" is just plain irritating but yelling at an opponent to shoot is taunting IMHO.
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 04:08pm
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Quote:
A hunert years ago, I was frequently telling my man-to-man man to "Shoot it", but it was in more of a converstional tone. If I could catch his eye, I owned the ball. Maybe that's why I am more lenient on this than others appear to be.  mick
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 04:12pm
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FWIW
Last Friday, A1 on a fast break, comes down and lays the ball in. B1, trailing the play, jumps and slaps the backboard about a foot from the top while the ball is nestled in the basket. He was showboating and I popped him. Of course, you know what the coach said, "You're the only one to call that all year."
I could never slap the backboard less than a foot from the top. I guess that's why I'm less lenient. But it's not why I caught heat for making the call. 
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Wed Dec 10, 2003, 04:38pm
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I guess I didn't make clear his wording of "Come on..shoot it! Shoot the ball!" The part that tipped it over for me was the "Come on.." part.
I've seen/heard that expression used expressly in taunting others into a fight in other circumstances. That combined with the facial expressions, volume and repeatedness preciptated my warning.
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