What would you do?

Ridgeben · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 10:23am

Last night, Varsity boys game, I had two completely opposite teams. One team was very finesse, quick passes, good ball movement. The other team was very physical with next to no movement. It was a decent game in the first quarter until the physical team starting losing their cool/temper. At half it was a 20 point game. Early in the second half we had to "T" up one of the physical team's players for taunting, this is when it got weird. The physical team's coach started telling (not discreetly) to hurt the other team. He would say things like "next time you have one of their shooters close to you like that you have to take him out" and "if you have one of their guys flying over you to get a rebound you had better undercut him" and "if he is ever that close to you again swing your elbow and break his jaw". Now he was saying more to his kids, but these were the things that I/we heard as officials? Have you ever heard a coach say such things and if so, did you do something about it? Would you consider the words of a coach to his players unsportsmanlike? There was a ton wrong with what he was saying, but what would you have done about it if anything? I am pretty sure I will write a letter to the principal of the school. I am still dumbfounded by that coach.

Smitty · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 10:48am

If I clearly heard a coach saying those things exactly as you said, I would toss the coach - get him away from those kids to send the message to the kids that what he was saying was unacceptable behavior and will not be tolerated on any level. Those comments are so outrageous they call for a clear and decisive reaction. Get that coach off the court so the players can't listen to that nonsense. Write a letter to the AD, the principal, the school board. You have to protect the kids.

Stan · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:01am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeben
He would say things like "next time you have one of their shooters close to you like that you have to take him out" and "if you have one of their guys flying over you to get a rebound you had better undercut him" and "if he is ever that close to you again swing your elbow and break his jaw".

Did the kids follow his advice?

Although I would like to agree with Smitty, I can't. This is like the coach telling the kids to foul 'em at the end of a close game. I think we need to call the game that's being played, however, I may be hyperaware of the situation.

Thanks, Stan

Ridgeben · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:02am

The kids never did the stuff the coach said. If they did I think we would have had legal issues far greater than right call wrong call. Thank goodness the kids did not do the things the coach was reccommending.

Smitty · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by Stan

Quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeben
He would say things like "next time you have one of their shooters close to you like that you have to take him out" and "if you have one of their guys flying over you to get a rebound you had better undercut him" and "if he is ever that close to you again swing your elbow and break his jaw".

Did the kids follow his advice?

Although I would like to agree with Smitty, I can't. This is like the coach telling the kids to foul 'em at the end of a close game. I think we need to call the game that's being played, however, I may be hyperaware of the situation.

Thanks, Stan

This is nothing like the coach telling the kids to foul at the end of the game. This is the coach telling the kids to purposely injure the opposing team. Let's say a fan hears what the coach told those kids and saw that you heard it too. Then one of the kids goes out and breaks the jaw of one of the kids on the other team. Can you say lawsuit? I'm not afraid to toss the coach for those remarks. If you don't, you're telling those kids you condone his behavior. Wrong message. There are more important things than worrying about your reputation and "making the right call". I hear a coach tell a kid to break someone's jaw, the coach is done coaching.

Jurassic Referee · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by Stan

Quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeben
He would say things like "next time you have one of their shooters close to you like that you have to take him out" and "if you have one of their guys flying over you to get a rebound you had better undercut him" and "if he is ever that close to you again swing your elbow and break his jaw".

Did the kids follow his advice?

Although I would like to agree with Smitty, I can't. This is like the coach telling the kids to foul 'em at the end of a close game. I think we need to call the game that's being played, however, I may be hyperaware of the situation.

Stan, you gotta be kidding! That coach isn't telling his players to foul someone. He's telling his players to injure someone. He's gotta go, and he should go the first time that he spouted crap like that- no warning. Smitty's 100% right on this one!

Smitty · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by Stan

Quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeben
He would say things like "next time you have one of their shooters close to you like that you have to take him out" and "if you have one of their guys flying over you to get a rebound you had better undercut him" and "if he is ever that close to you again swing your elbow and break his jaw".

Did the kids follow his advice?

Although I would like to agree with Smitty, I can't. This is like the coach telling the kids to foul 'em at the end of a close game. I think we need to call the game that's being played, however, I may be hyperaware of the situation.

Thanks, Stan

So Stan, what are you going to do - wait till a kid throws the elbow that breaks another kid's jaw? Then what are you gonna do? Toss the elbow thrower and the coach? How are you going to justify tossing the coach at that point? If you say "I heard you tell that kid to break someone's jaw at your last time-out", your reffing days will be over. You've just set yourself up for a lawsuit. If you don't toss the coach when you hear the remarks, you can't toss him later or else you set yourself up to be as responsible for the injury as he is.

Stan · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:20am

[/B][/QUOTE] That coach isn't telling his players to foul someone. He's telling his players to injure someone. He's gotta go, and he should go the first time that he spouted crap like that- no warning. Smitty's 100% right on this one! [/B][/QUOTE]

On second thought you guys are right. I expect if I would experience the situation I would have had a different perspective than just reading about it. Where's my coffee?

Stan

Barry C. Morris · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:20am

Those statements by the coach were 100% unsporting. He should have been shown the door immediately.

ChuckElias · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:21am

I had something similar happen in a JV game a long time ago, when I was just starting out and unsure of myself. The didn't say the things repeatedly, like in Ben's story, but he did say like, "Hurt him!". It was the first time I'd heard something like that and didn't know what to do. So I simply said to his player, "That's bad advice. Don't do it." I always felt that I had not handled it correctly.

Fast forward a couple years and I'm doing lacrosse. Coach feels his kid got fouled but didn't get the call. So he yells to the kid (right in front of me

) "Get 'im in the head!" or something very similar. Flag, unsportsmanlike. I feel like I had to do it. (As soon as I finished administering the foul, he apologized to the opposing coach. He knew he'd lost it.)

We can argue about whether you toss him or just T him, but you've got to assess some foul here.

cmathews · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 11:23am

I agree with Smitty and JR 100%, and lawsuits aside, if this isn't unsporting behavior then I guess I will have to consult Webster's again...and unsporting behavior = T, and without warning. I also say flagrant and T is just the first letter in Tossed....

Ridgeben · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 01:40pm

I guess this would fall into the "dishonorable" catergory of the unsporting rule. Just so you all know, my partner and I called one "T" in the game on one of the coach in question kid. He said some ugly things to another kid. There were no terrible acts by the kids, so we did not show the coach the door. In retrospect, I probably should have thrown the coach, but I was having trouble in determining what exact rule he was breaking and what my grounds for ejection were going to be.

rainmaker · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeben
In retrospect, I probably should have thrown the coach, but I was having trouble in determining what exact rule he was breaking and what my grounds for ejection were going to be.

...and the behavior didn't get out of hand, so in this particular situation it turned out okay, and you don't need to feel too upset with yourself. You might consider talking to your assignor who would talk to other refs who will work with this coach in the next few days. It might be helpful to the situation for everyone to be on the same page about this issue. Don't think of it as tattling or complaining. Call it "preventative officiating"!!

Mark Padgett · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 04:45pm

Try this next time. Go to the coach and say, "Coach, I heard what you just said to your players. I'm telling you that if one of your players even looks like he's thinking about intentionally injuring someone, not only will both of you be out of here, but this game will be forfeit. You may want to rethink your situation and talk with your players again." Then turn around and walk away.

If he gives you any grief, puke on his shoes.

Mregor · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2003, 05:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Try this next time. Go to the coach and say, "Coach, I heard what you just said to your players. I'm telling you that if one of your players even looks like he's thinking about intentionally injuring someone, not only will both of you be out of here, but this game will be forfeit. You may want to rethink your situation and talk with your players again." Then turn around and walk away.

If he gives you any grief, puke on his shoes.

What he said (except for the puking on the shoes).

Mregor