Intentional Player Control...

[TXMATTHEW05]

Hello, all - it's been a while, so I thought I'd come back...

I'm just curious - is there any way you could have an intentional player control foul? I mean, if the player takes off, full speed, from back mid-court and there's a defensive player set straight up in the paint, and the offensive player [knowing that the other one is there] plows into the guy with all his might...COULD it be sold as an intentional foul?

Never happened, but I was curious

[PAULK1]

4-19-6 A player control foul is a common foul

4-19-2 A common foul is a personal foul which is neither
flagrant or intentional.

so you cannot have an intentional player control foul.

[TXMATTHEW05]

Very good...was just curious.



Thanks!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by PAULK1
4-19-6 A player control foul is a common foul

4-19-2 A common foul is a personal foul which is neither
flagrant or intentional.

so you cannot have an intentional player control foul.

But another part of the definition of an intentional foul says that if a foul includes excessive contact, it's intentional. I would think you could call an intentional foul on the dribbler, give two shots and the ball at the spot of the foul. It wouldn't be "player control foul", but it would meet the situation.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

But another part of the definition of an intentional foul says that if a foul includes excessive contact, it's intentional. I would think you could call an intentional foul on the dribbler, give two shots and the ball at the spot of the foul. It wouldn't be "player control foul", but it would meet the situation.

juules, Paul is simply saying that you can have an intentional foul on the dribbler but it's not a PC foul.

[RefRx]

I have had an intentional foul on a player with the ball, but not as you described. Player holding the ball is closely guarded when they took the ball and forcefully, pushed it into the chest of the defensive player with enough force to cause the DP to fall to the floor. Coach had no problem with the call.

[Adam]

I had one last year. Frustration foul. Defense playing tight, A is losing pretty badly. Second quarter, A1 stops dribbling, and pushes B1 back. Easy call. Two shots.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by RefRx
I have had an intentional foul on a player with the ball, but not as you described. Player holding the ball is closely guarded when they took the ball and forcefully, pushed it into the chest of the defensive player with enough force to cause the DP to fall to the floor. Coach had no problem with the call.

I'm still unconvinced that a player can foul another player with the ball.

[cmathews]

Hey BBR can we work the hand is part of the ball backwards LOL and get there that way.... I understand what you are saying, but do you really think you should pass on a call where a player in control of the ball uses the ball to push another player?? I had one in a JR High Girls game this year, much the same as described, tough defense frustrating the offensive player so she thumped the defender in the chest with the ball. By rule I would think this is a T similar to throwing the ball at someone, but I just went with PC and moved along. Intentional would have been appropriate also.... IMHO

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I'm still unconvinced that a player can foul another player with the ball.

Call it "unsporting' and give him a T then. Does that work, Tony?

[nine01c]

An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul.
In the original post a flagrant personal foul would be warranted (because of its violent/savage nature). If the action by the ball handler is NOT extreme or violent, usually a player control foul is appropriate.

[Adam]

Did she throw the ball? Or just push it into the B1 pretty hard?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by cmathews
Hey BBR can we work the hand is part of the ball backwards LOL and get there that way....

I like your logic, mathews!

[Mregor]

I had a situation in my first game of the year where A1 had picked up her dribble and while being trapped, swung and connected with her elblow on one of the defenders. I immediately signaled intentional. My partner decided he wanted to talk about it since he had seen it too (2-man, it was trail-side right at the edge of the lane, I was trail). He told me it had to be a tech and I held firm and told him there was contact so it couldn't be a tech. After a little debate, we went with my intentional call. It could have been a PC but I went with the intentional based on severity of the act.

Mregor

[williebfree]

Originally posted by Mregor
I had a situation in my first game of the year where A1 had picked up her dribble and while being trapped, swung and connected with her elblow on one of the defenders. I immediately signaled intentional. My partner decided he wanted to talk about it since he had seen it too (2-man, it was trail-side right at the edge of the lane, I was trail). He told me it had to be a tech and I held firm and told him there was contact so it couldn't be a tech. After a little debate, we went with my intentional call. It could have been a PC but I went with the intentional based on severity of the act.

Mregor

You done well!

According to the 2002-03 Rules book - Points of Emphasis (Page 68)

Rough Play - Excess swinging of Arm(s)/Elbows(S)

Excess swinging of Arm(s)/Elbows(S) when contact is made must be judged by the severity of the act and intent. A player control foul, an intentional foul or a flagrant foul may be called.