knowing the rules

[Forksref]

JR makes a great point. The rules that I NEVER NEVER EVER get wrong are the ones I screwed up on in a live game. Experience is the best teacher!

I was working a state championship football game and our crew messed up on the administration of a foul. It had no effect on the outcome of the game and even the state rules chief missed it at first, but later, when we found out what we did wrong, I vowed NEVER to get it wrong again. And I haven't.

[WinterWillie]

When you have been the perfect referee in a game, it is time to hang up the Fox 40, walk out the gym door and never come back!

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by WinterWillie
In a study done between officials and coaches, it was determined that 92% of officials knew the rules as to only 88% of the coaches.

The figures were given out at an association meeting and they were a cross section of many sports. I guess if you really wanted a scientific explanation then you would have to know how many of the referees were also coaches!!!!

The point being that when it comes to knowing the rules, the statistics favor the referee, no matter how you look at it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by just another ref

Often I defend the guys on the court. But this mistake was obvious to A LOT of people. They asked me what the rule was and I told them. They could then draw their own conclusion.

JAR, was the "LOT of people" that you are referring to above happen to be fans that were sitting around you while you watched the game? If they were, you just stabbed the guys on the floor right in the back. Going over a rules mistake in the dressing room with the officials involved is one thing, but basically telling the fans that the officials screwed up is a whole different matter.

Hopefully, I've misread your post, and you didn't really do that to your fellow officials.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Sorry, bits, my brain is fried. I don't get the joke. Perhaps I should be glad?

Nah, you didn't miss much. Only being a smart a$$ about the (insignificant) difference between distractions in the locker at half-time v. the original sitch, which was after an overtime game.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
...you just stabbed the guys on the floor right in the back. Going over a rules mistake in the dressing room with the officials involved is one thing, but basically telling the fans that the officials screwed up is a whole different matter.

I respectfully disagree. The fans knew the officials screwed up. They just could not quote chapter and verse to prove the point. When fans ask you "Was that wrong?" what do you say? If it is a question of a block/charge call, it
is easy to say "I don't know." because you don't. You may have a strong opinion, but it is often good to keep that to yourself. Fans sometimes will disagree and ask me to confirm it: "That wasn't a travel, was it?" "Actually, it was. Good call." "Hmmph!" and a lot of times this person won't ask you anything else. But if it is a question on a rule, chances are I do know, and those who know me know that I know. I find it hard not to tell what the rule is in this situation.

[Edited by just another ref on Dec 7th, 2003 at 06:45 PM]

[ChuckElias]

Again, I have almost completely stopped reading and responding to Rut's posts, but I'll just make one comment:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I also think Chuck once again does not get it. No one that I have ever known on this board has ever said that "presentation" was the most important thing to officiating.

I do get it. Honest. I did not say that anyone had claimed that presentation was the most important blah blah blah.

All I said, was that some people might acknowledge that the rule was misapplied, but also hold that it was not a big deal since the presentation made the game continue to flow smoothly.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Again, I have almost completely stopped reading and responding to Rut's posts, but I'll just make one comment:

You do not have to respond to any of my posts at all. My comments were not really directed at you, but at your statements that I felt are incorrect and are commonly stated inaccurately. You could have been anyone, I still would have responded the way I did. Because I feel that the "perception" that people on this board have tried to characterize as anyone as missing a rule, as someone that cares more about (yes I am going to say it) "Presense" than trying to learn the rules. It takes time to learn the rules. Because the rules you learn the most, are the ones you screw up or at best have to deal with. And yes, veterans make those mistakes just like rookies sometimes. They just do not make them as often.

Peace

[ace]

I was on my way back from a Tourny, passed the site of another tourny and thought that I'd stop in. I was in street clothes so I went and sat down. Waited for half-time I was in the stands behind the table (i like to watch the game from here when I can) and when the refs came to get thier stuff at the half i pulled out my card to verify to them I was an official and asked if I could join them in the hospitality room. they said sure... I saw a few things on some plays and I asked them about it. I'm still a young official and so it was mostly for trying to expand my knowlege.... I then asked if I could tell them what I saw from the stands, I knew one of the offiicals from our local region meetings and so he didnt have a problem with it. So we talked about it and they asked for me to hang around and talk to them again after the game. Its all about how you approach the situation of going into the locker room after the game. If I want to go ima usually be by the door onthier way out or have asked before the game even started.

Now about having a co-official in the stands.. I called a game yesterday, freshman girls A championship for a tounry in the area. I was paird with a new official, our assignor, and a varsity official who helps train at training meetings before the season. I was nervouce but we had a good wrap on the FIRST half. 2nd half I made some calls back to back and I shoulda switched with my partner but her and I kinna lost each other till the 4th quarter. Now - having the other official in the stands kinna hurt us. I was watching the game before mine with my assignor/evlauator and someone asked us a question or two... I just let him handle it because I was starting to put the sponge on my shoe and my assignor picked up on that i was trying to avoid the situation.

He apologized to us both after the game for not changing after his games because it drew extra attention to us on the floor having him there in uniform with his jacket on. I've dropped into some games as a spectator. I always sit on the visitors side (less likely to be noticed and thats usually behind the table) and dont say anything to anyone. If i dont agree with something or it looked funny i make sure that if i make a reaction its under my breath.

[ChuckElias]

You said. . .

Originally posted by JRutledge
I also think Chuck once again does not get it. . .

And then you said. . .

My comments were not really directed at you

How you figure?

[JRutledge]

You are the ones that made the comments, so yes the comments I made were in response to what you said, but I do not feel you are the only one that feels that way. Really Chuck, the comments are not personal, just an observation on my part.

I am sure Chuck that you are a very good official, but you just do not share many of the things that makes me successful and that make many others that I know very successful. And you know what, that is alright with me. So if you still want to keep making a point to everyone that you do not read my posts anymore or respond to them, please do not do me any favors.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by just another ref

I respectfully disagree.

I find it hard not to tell what the rule is in this situation.

Now I know exactly where you stand.

I stand by my comments above!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by just another ref

I respectfully disagree. The fans knew the officials screwed up. They just could not quote chapter and verse to prove the point. When fans ask you "Was that wrong?" what do you say?

"Sorry, I was looking the other way and didn't see it."

[just another ref]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

"Sorry, I was looking the other way and didn't see it." [/B]

This is fine when asked about the play on the floor. But what about: "They just gave that guy 3 free throws for the intentional foul on a made basket. That's not right, is it?" What do you say to that? I was absent that day?

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by just another ref
Several people asked me, "How can this be?" I said, "It can't. They screwed up."

Everything else I think is fine, but not this.

You should have been more "diplomatic", as you put it, on that one.

There's an old saying - "in difficult times, wise men remain silent." Don't think that was an option here, but you could have worded your response better.

The locker room stuff is no big deal - we're all officials, we're all there to support, question, test, push, and mentor each other. It's just business...it's not personal (at least most of the time).