being forced OOB

Tmeup · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 06, 2003, 12:40pm

I would like to say nice job on this board

I had a situation the other day

Player A gets a rebound near the Base line OOB. As he gets the rebound Player B accidentilly bumps him and Player A falls OOB. If Player B would not have touched Player A he never would of went OOB. But if this contact would of occured in the middle of the lane, no where near the OOB line I would not of made a call. I called a push foul on player B.
In this situation I didnt think that Player A should lose possesion of ball, but I didnt think it ahould be a foul either.

What would you do in this situation?

Hawks Coach · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 06, 2003, 01:24pm

Illegal contact led to an unfair advantage being gained by the defense, because ignoring the contact means a violation on the offense and ball to the defense. You can call a foul in this case.

There are also many instances where there is slight contact, especially in light of how a game has been played/called, and that contact leads to a violation. This contact is often viewed as incidental. Again, you have to be there to know which is appropriate in this particular case.

nine01c · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 06, 2003, 01:27pm

I'll give this one a try. I think you did the right thing. Remember, a foul doesn't have to be intentional, and we call fouls due to "accidental" contact in many cases.
Although it wasn't a hard foul, or intentional, the bumping/pushing action did prevent player A from performing his normal offensive movements. You answered you own question by stating that Player A would never had fallen OOB had Player B not touched him.

ace · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 06, 2003, 01:28pm

Heres a theory that some of us use while on the court, and if you ask me its the only one to use when officiating. Advantage/Disadvantage. Did B1 put A1 to a disadvantage when he pushed/made contact? From your description I would say yes because A lost contact and as you say was forced out of bounds. So call the push or block on B1 and move on. From your description it sounds like you made the right call. So sleep easy and toss 'em straight!

Ace

Back In The Saddle · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 07, 2003, 04:51am

I think you have to rely on advantage/disadvantage on this one. While a similar bump in the middle of the floor may have caused no disadvantage to the ballhandler, the bump at the sideline put him at a tremendous disadvantage. Passing on this call would reward the defense for fouling...and almost certainly earn you the wrath of the players, coach, and fans.

Another situation to consider. You will see a similar case where a bump will cause the ballhandler to fumble the ball oob, rather than fall oob with it. In this case, some people suggest that you call the oob and give it back to the offended team, even if they were the last to touch it. There is no basis for this in the rules, but I see it called that way quite a bit. And it seems to be a pretty fair compromise much of the time.

That should get some discussion going

Forksref · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 07, 2003, 11:43am

In the old, old days, some officials would give the ball back to the player forced OOB and say, "forced out," which I don't think was ever in the rules.

If that contact was in the middle of the court and caused no violation, you could let it go. You could have the same contact in the middle of the court if the contact caused a traveling violation. If the incidental contact caused a traveling violation, I'd call the foul. It's advantage/disadvantage. If the contact caused a violation, it would be a disadvantage to the player who traveled.

It the contact caused a violation by the other team, you have to call the foul.

Good call!

Luv4Asian8 · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tmeup
Player A gets a rebound near the Base line OOB. As he gets the rebound Player B accidentilly bumps him and Player A falls OOB. If Player B would not have touched Player A he never would of went OOB. But if this contact would of occured in the middle of the lane, no where near the OOB line I would not of made a call. I called a push foul on player B.
In this situation I didnt think that Player A should lose possesion of ball, but I didnt think it ahould be a foul either.

What would you do in this situation?

Had this EXACT same situation in a youth league last Sunday! (Girls, Junior High) Small World!

I was L weak side, and partner T strong side. I was intently watching post/rebounds. Player A caught it at endline (strong), where I closed down a lil and glanced there and saw she was inbounds and good to go so I brought my attention back to the key (most of the players). Next I just see her on top of the ball OOB, so I whistled my line, and partner whistled the foul (which I missed). Ruled: Push!

Great call!

Hawks Coach · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 09, 2003, 03:55pm

I think that something to consider here as well is the difference between the contact being the cause vs it merely having contributed to the violation. A player who is clearly off-balance that falls with a slight bump may not earn the foul, while a player who is clearly balanced and is displaced into a violation would earn the foul. In between is where you need to judge!

I can tell you that there is frequently contact that contributes to a violation but is not called. Most posts I am reading seem to indicate that without seeing the play, poeple can call this a foul. I don't think it is that straightforward.

But if you saw a foul, then you can clearly back the call and feel comfortable that you did the right thing