How to screw up a good game ! - Page 2

CLAY · #16 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 02:21pm

snaqwells,

My point excatly. Thanks for the response

ref18 · #17 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 02:26pm

If he's doing D1 games, then he must be doing something right. You shouldn't be critisizing him.

BktBallRef · #18 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 02:51pm

Answer the question, bossref.

You were his partner for this game?

Hawks Coach · #19 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 03:08pm

Since you have the quote word for word, does that mean you heard what the coach said, or that you read what the coach said he said? Were you there? Did you personally hear everything? And do you support one of the programs, or were you a neutral participant?

I will say that I went to the student newspaper for the winning team and they called the "T" questionable, and Steve Fisher's somewhat obscure comment seems to back that up (if we can just figure out the context - the quote isn't specific enough).

ChuckElias · #20 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 06:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
If he's doing D1 games, then he must be doing something right. You shouldn't be critisizing him.

The fact that an official has reached a certain level of game doesn't mean that we can't point out when he makes errors. Nobody is claiming to be perfect, but it makes no sense to wear blinders and ignore an obvious mistake.

bossref · #21 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 07:25pm

Chuck

It is a strong possibility that Mr Libbey
went overboard and may eventually be reprimanded or
punished by the league/conference.

A I was not at the game, but did see the
replay on television.
B. An official in attendance said that Mr Libbey
displayed an expression of "I got you!" when calling the T
and then he looked over to a group of high school
officials looking for their approval.
C. He always has to be "in charge".

My original post was made so that other officials
can learn from his mistake.
IMHO He did not use good judgment in this case.

Everyone in San Diego kisses his A$$ because he has the power to give you a reference or completely shut the door
to an official's advancement through the college ranks.

I know this firsthand.

Since 1980 only Ron Filson (didn't go too far), Tom Wood
(a very good official), and now Mike Greenstein (with Libbey's help) have gone from HS to D1.
Others have been good enough, but never received any support from the MAN.

He (Libbey) has acted as if he is pure (in public)
and has acted as if he wants to help promote good young San Diego officials, but has really not done much.

His status has never been challenged because he gives quick (or even unjustified) technicals because
he has been the most powerful official around here for 20 years and he has a reputation.

Maybe he should come on down from his throne
and act like an unbiased, objective, sympathetic,
calm, and professional official that everyone
expects him to be.

Thanks for your insight.

Adam · #22 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 07:37pm

And there's the axe.

ref18 · #23 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 09:43pm

If indeed this person has that much power, than badmouthing him isn't a good idea. If word about your post ever reaches him, i'd say the door for you would be SLAMMED pretty quickly.

bossref · #24 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 10:21pm

Fortunately for me, I am very near the end of a
30+ year career as an official.

I have not been involved in "organized" basketball
for several seasons.

I couldn't care less what this man thinks
of my opinions.

But yes, if I were trying to climb the ladder,
it wouldn't have been wise to voice my opinions.

rainmaker · #25 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 11:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
If indeed this person has that much power, than badmouthing him isn't a good idea. If word about your post ever reaches him, i'd say the door for you would be SLAMMED pretty quickly.

Only a guess, but maybe this already happened, some time ago...

zebraman · #26 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 06, 2003, 12:43am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bossref
Fortunately for me, I am very near the end of a
30+ year career as an official.

Fortunately for all of us.

I have not been involved in "organized" basketball
for several seasons.

Fortunately for all of us.

Z

bossref · #27 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 06, 2003, 04:40am

I bet you that if you were in my shoes,
you would feel very much the same as I do.

So unless you know me, your comments
are unwarranted.

Wait to see how this situation washes out.
You might be surprised.

BTW I worked at the D1 level (women)
for a few years without any assistance
from Mr Libbey. and if you knew the circumstances
of our relationship, you would probably have good
reasons to feel the same as I do.

WinterWillie · #28 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 06, 2003, 08:19am

The first and only rule in the officials "unofficial" manual is: Never speak to the press.

Some officials will issue a technical foul if it appears you are questioning their integrity. We have all heard the proverbial, "Call em' both ways, ref." That comment alone could be the basis for a technical foul.

Regarding this particular incident, the assessor and
assignor for that conference will be reviewing the game with the referee involved.

TriggerMN · #29 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 06, 2003, 09:38am

My turn to make a few points.

First, yahoo.com has archived game audio of this game from the USD radio network. I'm at work and can't listen to it now, but when I get home, I'll load it up--it could be interesting.

I'm not going to defend Dave Libbey. I'm not going to ostracize him either. Dave Libbey is a VERY VERY GOOD official on the west coast, who has earned more respect than any other official out there, with the possible exception of Dick Cartmell.

Libbey is very mechanically sound as well. Some guys when they get older, such as Tim Higgins, lose their crisp mechanics, but it doesn't cost them games, because they're still great officials and have earned the right to be doing high level games.

As an unbiased observer in this case, I will say that it seems that Libbey does pull the trigger a little sooner than some other guys. He does tend to have an aura about him of demanding authority. However, in many cases, I feel that's a good thing, to let everyone know you're in charge.

As far as him giving the technical, we're only going to hear one side of that story, and if you weren't within 15 feet of the USD sideline for the whole game, you probably don't know the whole story. So it comes down to

1. Maybe he screwed up
2. Maybe he didn't

Yep, officials make mistakes. I've never seen a perfectly called game. But then, I've never seen a perfectly coached game (apologies to Jimmy V and Rollie Massimino).

So he's got a quick trigger. I don't have a problem with that. Officials should give more technicals if they are warranted. Remember Duke's Dohntay Jones dunking a ball last year and then doing push-ups on his defender? No technical on that one. Remember Indiana's Mike Davis running on the court at Bert Smith? Smith didn't give Davis a technical, and everyone said what great composure he had. That's exactly right, but would anyone have argued if Smith HAD dinged him? That's my point.

WinterWillie · #30 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 07, 2003, 08:46am

.
Officials should give more technicals if they are warranted. Remember Duke's Dohntay Jones dunking a ball last year and then doing push-ups on his defender? No technical on that one. Remember Indiana's Mike Davis running on the court at Bert Smith? Smith didn't give Davis a technical, and everyone said what great composure he had. That's exactly right, but would anyone have argued if Smith HAD dinged him? That's my point.

As officials, we do not give as many technicals as we should.