NCAA question, administration after double fouls - Page 2

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #16 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 28, 2003, 11:48am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
So, why is the double personal foul different -- why not say the B had "control" after the made basket and give the ball to B instead of using the arrow? Shouldn't the rules on these (Double Ps and Double Ts) fouls be reasonably consistent?

So do you share my confusion here, Bob, or are you merely playing Devil's Advocate? I can live with "T's, you can run the endline; personals go to the arrow". But I'd like some rationale. Is it "just because"? I hate that.

Chuck:

I understand your concern about rationale and also have the same question. But I would think the play with the double technical foul would be a one in a gazillion play. One would have to have either both coaches going nuclear while the shot is in the air or two opponents screaming at the officials or at each other, and what are the chances of that happening during a game.

MTD, Sr.

Dan_ref · #17 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 28, 2003, 12:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Somebody please help me with these:

Quote:

While A1's try is in flight, a double personal foul is committed. The ball enters the basket. The official counts the basket, charges teh foul, award no FTs, resumes play with the AP procedure and recycles teh shot clock. Is the official correct?

The answer is yes, and is directly supported by AR 26 on page 143.

So then, what is the difference in this case?

Quote:

While A1's try is in flight, the officials assess a double direct technical foul. The try is successful. The official rules that the penalties offset each other, awards no FTs, awards Team B the ball and allows Team B to run the end line. Is the official correct?

The answer is again yes! Why do you go to the arrow after a double personal, but not after a double technical? I understand that for double personals, you award the ball back to the team in control and for double T's you award the ball at the POI. But neither team was in control in the first question, and there is no team control at the POI in the second question. So why wouldn't you also go to the arrow after the double T's?

Chuck, my thinking on this is since the ball remains live until the end of the shot the POI is delayed, if you will, until then. Seems kinda obvious to me, but obviously we're looking at this differently.

ChuckElias · #18 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 28, 2003, 03:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Chuck, my thinking on this is since the ball remains live until the end of the shot the POI is delayed, if you will, until then. Seems kinda obvious to me, but obviously we're looking at this differently.

It's about time you showed up. This was on your test, too! I don't think it's "obvious", but as I said, I can live with that interp. I don't think it's right by the rules, but I can live with it.

bob jenkins · #19 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 29, 2003, 10:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
So do you share my confusion here, Bob, or are you merely playing Devil's Advocate? I can live with "T's, you can run the endline; personals go to the arrow". But I'd like some rationale. Is it "just because"? I hate that.

Yes, I share your confusion.

Let's suppose we were writing the rule book "from scratch." We have a general concept that on a double foul, we should charge each player and team, then just pick up from where we left off.

So, why is the definition of "where we left off" different on a double T than on a double P?

bob jenkins · #20 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 29, 2003, 10:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Thanks, Bob. Here's a related question. If a Team A player commits a T away from the ball, while the ball is in the air, is that the same as a personal foul -- shot counts if it goes? Or is the ball dead at that moment? I'm talking Fed here.

The ball remains live until the try has ended on all fouls by the shooting team, except a player control foul.

Note that PC fouls are listed in 6-7-4, which has no exceptions. (All) Other fouls are listed in 6-7-7, which has the "while a try is in flight" exception.