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-   -   Very Weak on Strong Side (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/10933-very-weak-strong-side.html)

tomegun Tue Nov 25, 2003 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun

I like the way the heart of the matter is avoided, square up and you cut your vision.

No more so than any other time an official is "on the ball" -- whether at T, C or L.


I would like to see this done consistently without cutting off your vision (not by me).

It will cut off your vision because the area inside the arc is now the Lead's and if you "square up" to a play in this area who will be watching the weakside/paint while you are transferring responsibility?
Bob, this shouldn't happen in a 3-man game because when the lead and trail should be connected by an imaginary rope, when the lead goes the trail comes down so you will have two C's for a short time. The new C now has the weak side. Who watches this weak side while the trail has the ball and you are squaring up to a play near the arc in a two man game? If it is body language then you are using your body. To maintain your field of vision you would have to be near the sideline so you can still see back into the paint. Instead of me explaining what I mean by squaring up why doesn't someone explain it to me how all of this can happen while someone still watches the paint/weak side?

rainmaker Wed Nov 26, 2003 01:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
It will cut off your vision because the area inside the arc is now the Lead's and if you "square up" to a play in this area who will be watching the weakside/paint while you are transferring responsibility?
Yes, Tom, now I see your point, and it's the part I'm having trouble myself being smooth about.

Okay, so here I am at Lead, minding my own business in my primary, with Trail over there on the far side of the paint, above the arc. Now, I see that the ball has dropped down below the arc, and there's a rough pair of post playyers, working for position. But I've got two pairs over here on my side too. What am I supposed to do?

Last year, I was supposed to slide across but looking at an angle back across the paint, seeing these post players on "strong side" but still keeping the other two pair in my line of sight, just in case.

This year, from asking various people this question, it appears that we are supposed to "square up" to take the ball and the competitive match-up, and release the weak side players to Trail, who has to adjust her position accordingly.

I don't like it. But then, I don't like the little skip step that so many boys take right before the shot, which ought to be called a travel, and absolutely never is. When I'm God, things are going to be different around here!!

just another ref Wed Nov 26, 2003 01:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
When I'm God, things are going to be different around here!!
Do you have a projected timetable for this?

rainmaker Wed Nov 26, 2003 02:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by just another ref
Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
When I'm God, things are going to be different around here!!
Do you have a projected timetable for this?

Nothing more specific than, "Not any time soon!!"

bob jenkins Wed Nov 26, 2003 08:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun

I like the way the heart of the matter is avoided, square up and you cut your vision.

No more so than any other time an official is "on the ball" -- whether at T, C or L.


I would like to see this done consistently without cutting off your vision (not by me).

It will cut off your vision because the area inside the arc is now the Lead's and if you "square up" to a play in this area who will be watching the weakside/paint while you are transferring responsibility?
Bob, this shouldn't happen in a 3-man game because when the lead and trail should be connected by an imaginary rope, when the lead goes the trail comes down so you will have two C's for a short time. The new C now has the weak side. Who watches this weak side while the trail has the ball and you are squaring up to a play near the arc in a two man game? If it is body language then you are using your body. To maintain your field of vision you would have to be near the sideline so you can still see back into the paint. Instead of me explaining what I mean by squaring up why doesn't someone explain it to me how all of this can happen while someone still watches the paint/weak side?

Just as in three-person, you don't officiate your new area until you get there; you keep officiating your old area.

That said, you can't watch everything all the time. If I'm going across, it's because I deem whatever is on that side to be "more important" than whatever is on this side. And if / when I pick up the ball it takes T a second to find the competitive matchup back on the other side, so be it.

ChuckElias Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:53am

This is obviously just my opinion, but some of you have made this way more complicated than it really is. First of all, just to be completely clear, when I say "squaring up" it means "the official has his/her shoulders parallel to the boundary line". Until this thread, that's the only definition of "squaring up" I've ever heard, and so that's how I'm going to be using it. Ok, technical terms are out of the way, so. . .

In my experience, the decision for the Lead to go ball side is a fairly easy one. There's only two reasons to for the Lead to go ball side in a 2-whistle game:

1) The ball has been passed into the low-post, or is very likely about to passed into the low-post; or

2) There are two or more players banging for position on the strong side, and there is nobody banging for position on the weak side.

That's it. If neither of those things is true, then stay put. If the ball comes below the FT line in a 1-on-1 situation, then stay put. It's the Trail's primary anyway. Let the Trail take it all the way to the basket.

Now, once you go ball side, you are responsible for everything inside the 3-point arc and below the FT line extended (that's a change this year). So forget about squaring up. Yes, that means that you may have the ball and the bodies in the post, but there is no reason for you to turn your body. Officiate this play exactly as if you were on your "normal" side of the court. Keep yourself angled in toward the lane area. If the play moves toward the 3-point arc, then you move toward the 3-point arc; but stay angled toward the lane. Mirror the movement of the ball.

As to the Trail's responsibility when the Lead comes ball side, the Trail has everything that the Lead doesn't have. So if the Lead came ballside to officiate banging bodies, but the ball is still above the FT line, then the Trail has the ball. If the Lead came ball side to take the entry pass to the post, then the Trail has the other players. Once on the court, this should not need to be communicated. In pre-game, it should be made clear that when the Lead comes across, s/he's either going to have the ball or not; in either case, the Trail has everything else.

Again, just my opinion. Keep it simple.

tomegun Thu Nov 27, 2003 07:56pm

Chuck, where have you been all of these pages? I totally, totally agree with what you are saying. If you look at this entire thread you will see I said some of the same things. I think we could work together on this and be on one accord!

I hope what I think is going to happen doesn't happen...........................................


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