ethical coaching behavior

[jellybeads]

As an educator/coach for 17 yrs. and knowing I haven't SEEN IT ALL so to speak in regards to coaching, please advise on the following: my 8th gr. daughter just made a town travel team and played in her first game. Her team lost the game 40-17 and after the game the coach went into a tirade at the girls in a private room, telling them they sucked, did nothing right, used profanity, threatened to quit as their coach, told them that it was ashame how everyone has been lying to them their whole lives ....telling them how good they are when they really sucked, etc etc...
During practice it is not uncommon for him to mimic or mock the girls when them make a mistake in catching or passing a ball, he even states that 'maybe he needs to run to the men's room to vomit' since their performance in a particular drill was so bad.
Yes, I've spoken to him.....his reponse ..more tirade..and support for his methods of "discipline".
To me it sounds more like belittling, berading and verbal abuse........
I thought this type of coaching had come and gone............
In my heart( and head) I know this is NOT HOW SOMEONE SHOULD TALK TO YOUND ATHLETES.........
But, in the political climate of my town, what recourse does one have? Pulling my own child from the team...obviously, but it is not fundamentally right for him to treat players like this... and who is there to advocate for the other girls who have parents who are perhaps scared to voice an opinion in fear of reprocussions????
We've contacted the director of the league, he is supporting the coach at this moment.
Perhaps I'm way off base, but whatever happened to ethical coaching standards???? HELP!!!
(oh, did I mention he is one of the founders of the travel team)
Thank you.......

[Hawks Coach]

You have a real problem here. If this is your only travel team option and he is the club founder, he is going to make the rules. Travel is very loosely organized and coaching behavior very poorly policed (which is over stating it becuase it is rarely policed!). You need to talk with your daughter about how she feels about this situation, but this is a problem coach who is not likely to change. If you can't live with this behavior, your only choice appears to be pulling your daughter, and that is a shame to have to do this because it affects her future prospects.

Yes the coach is wrong. I coach travel ball, have a successful team, and take the opposite tack most of the time. If we lose (or are losing), I have to build them back up. That's not to say I haven't chewed some butt after a particularly awful effort. I have never threatened to quit, told them they disgusted/embarrassed me, told them they made me want to vomit, or anything of this nature.

I focus on team. I focus on effort. I focus on what we talked about trying to accomplish and how well we did in reaching that goal. I am not part of this discussion - it is about them and what they want to do, not about how they make me look. I challenge them and ask them to respond.

[Camron Rust]

In addition to being a basketball referee, I coach 2 soccer teams. That kind of behavior is completely opposite my style and would not be tolerated in our league.

Get the parents together. Boycott him or have them all sign a petition to have him change or be removed. Have parents monitor the practices.

It doesn't matter how well this guy knows basketball, he wouldn't be coaching my child like that.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by jellybeads

In my heart( and head) I know this is NOT HOW SOMEONE SHOULD TALK TO YOUND ATHLETES.

Coach, first,last and foremost, she IS your daughter. You have to do what YOU think is right for her,no matter what. It might end up being a tough decision, but you always have to think of her first(which I am sure that you do anyway).

Good luck. I'm sure that it'll work out for you. You have too many of the proper and appropriate ideals for anything else to happen.

[canuckrefguy]

I am also an NCCP (National Coaching Certification Program) certified coach here in Canada (not sure what you folks call your system down there), and what you just described to me is deplorable. What's worse is the league is standing behind him.

This is a tough situation all around, but you need to ask the following questions:

Is this coach's behaviour okay?

Will it be good for your daughter? Is she having fun?

Is this the kind of role model you want your daughter to have?

Easy for me to talk when I'm not in your shoes, but scout around to see how other parents feel. I have to believe there's others that feel the way you do. This guy needs to be removed, and fast, whether he's the founder of the team or not. He should not be allowed to corrupt any more 13 year old girls.

GRADE 8 GIRLS BALL....unbelievable.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by jellybeads


Yes, I've spoken to him.....his reponse ..more tirade..and support for his methods of "discipline".
To me it sounds more like belittling, berading and verbal abuse........
I thought this type of coaching had come and gone............

Hey coach, this type of coaching doesn't happen on Parris Island...well, not without a well defined and attainable end result excecuted by trained and monitored professionals anyway. If you think your 12 yo daughter needs this type of abuse to excel at what should be a fun activity then fine. Otherwise do something about it.

[rcwilco]

This is a difficult situation but.... I have had the oportunity to coach for many years with kids, even one year at the high school level, of all ages and have seen this kind of behavior a few times. I have also had my children competing from rec to small college and watched their coaches. Thankfully while I did not always agree with their coaches, they have helped to improve my children in more ways than just how they play While development and their future in that sport is important, their self image and emotional/psychological development, (I feel), is more important and I do not think it would be best served by this guy who calls himself a coach. Check with the other parents, invovle your child in the decisions and good luck.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

As the father of two sons (ages 10 and 13), I think that you have only option: remove your daughter from the team. From the description of his behavior, that might be the best this possible. His tirade after the game that the team lost sounds very close to felony child abuse to me.

I would also like to know what the parents of the other girls think of this behavior. I cannot believe that all of them think his behavior is acceptable.

[PGCougar]

Assuming you've given it to us straight, I'd get out now. I've coached for over 16 years and have seen more than my fair share of this kind of coach. They are rarely successful.

A GOOD coach knows that there are two very distinct approaches to coaching the game - "coaching for instruction" and "coaching for performance".

A GREAT coach knows how to do the former - instruct and develop players' skills and ability within the framework of a team system. At the younger age groups, including 8th grade, it seems to me that this approach should govern the majority of the time. This approach entails identifying a mistake and provide feedback and instruction in a positive and non-threatening manner. Example: "Mary, the last two times you caught the ball, you put down the dribble immediately and missed open players near the basket, getting trapped once. Next time you catch the ball, remember to pivot and turn to the basket, and look to pass as a first option. Dribble only if no one is open."

An EXCELLENT coach knows how to blend in the "coaching for performance" factor AFTER he's certain that a player (or a team) is capable of more, based on what was taught, developed, and practiced. More importantly, an excellent coach knows WHEN to use each approach. Even when he chews them out to "light a fire" with some anger, an excellent coach still manages to provide meaningful feedback. Example: "Look at the clock! We're ahead by 8 with 2 minutes to go. We've turned the ball over the last two possessions rushing up the floor on fast breaks. Why are we pushing the ball up the floor?? You all know better than that! Different game from here on out. I don't want to see any shots unless it is an uncontested lay-up. TAKE CARE OF THE BALL!"

A LOUSY coach doesn't provide any quality instruction, and thinks he can wheedle performance out of players by screaming at the top of his lungs at the players. Worst of all, a lousy coach provides absolutely no informative feedback during these tirades. Telling the kids that they suck and that he's thinking of quitting??? Now there's something profound and insightful for me to think about - SHEESH!!!

Sound like you have a LOUSY COACH. Get your daughter out of this situation. People like this ruin their players' love for the game...

[rainmaker]

Coach --

You know the answer as well as we all do, but you're asking for support, which we all understand. Absolutely no way would I ever let any child of mine play for a coach like that. Not in any sport, in any town, in any circumstances. I think you should get the other parents together, and form a new travel team. When parents are afraid to insist on what they know is best for their own children, when the coach threatens and harasses anyone who complains, that's blackmail. Don't give in to it, and be sure your daughter knows that she deserves -- every girl deserves better. No one should be treated like that anywhere ever. Period.

[jellybeads]

Thank you all for your candid thoughts and support. I thought an update would interest some of you. After not sleeping for 3 nights, we've decided to remove our daughter from the team. We included her in the process and she has stated that in her heart the antics, belittling, and insulting behavior from the coach is just WRONG! One can not sit on the fence is this case...the coach is either right or wrong. Young athletes deserve the right to be treated with respect and dignity....that's FINAL! Being emotionally and psycologically (sp?) safe at practice is as important as being physically safe.
We notified at least half of the parents by phone to share the news, some also expressed their own concerns and many thanked us for our courage. We have discovered 2 parents who are very concerned and one who is thinking of pulling her daughter.
In the meantime, we've been told by the director that he will NOT continue a dialogue with us since I quote "Your daughter is no longer in the program"......geeez, can they keep digging the hole deeper for themselves, or what? Oh, did I mention my 12 yr. old son is in the boys travel league and my husband is one of 3 coaches of that team?
Hawkscoach hit the nail on the head....we've discovered that there is no mission statement of philisophy, no code of ethics or standards for coaches in this travel league. There is obviously no protocal for handling complaints lodged against coaches.....oh...yeah, the put my head in the sand and look the other way is alive and kicking here!! The director actually had the nerve to say..."tell your daughter that the angrier the coach gets, the harder she needs to try"
I bet battered wives hear that all the time from their battering partner.
So, we're off to fight the bigger battle.. a letter to the paper, to the board of directors of the league who knows what.
As someone famous once said (let me know who):
IF NOT ME, THEN WHO
IF NOT NOW, THEN WHEN

Thank you for you candor and professionalism!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by jellybeads
We notified at least half of the parents by phone to share the news, some also expressed their own concerns and many thanked us for our courage. We have discovered 2 parents who are very concerned and one who is thinking of pulling her daughter.
In the meantime, we've been told by the director that he will NOT continue a dialogue with us since I quote "Your daughter is no longer in the program"......geeez, can they keep digging the hole deeper for themselves, or what? Oh, did I mention my 12 yr. old son is in the boys travel league and my husband is one of 3 coaches of that team?
As someone famous once said (let me know who):
IF NOT ME, THEN WHO?
IF NOT NOW, THEN WHEN?

If you can't get any satisfaction any other way, just pull out completely and start your own league. When other parents have a choice, they may very well prefer your way of doing things. See if you can get the local high school coaches to work with you. Just in terms of sheer practicality, abuse usually doesn't get the desired results. If you can produce teams with about the same win-loss record as "the other guy", and let the girls enjoy that, you'll definitely win the war in the long run.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by rainmaker
[QUOTEIf you can't get any satisfaction any other way, just pull out completely and start your own league. When other parents have a choice, they may very well prefer your way of doing things.

If you can produce teams with about the same win-loss record as "the other guy", and let the girls enjoy that, you'll definitely win the war in the long run.

Starting your own league is definitely an option, but the problem of finding quality coaches will remain. It is hard to put together a quality product from the get go, and teams are unlikely to leave the other travel league for yours. So it becomes a supply and demand question - so this may or may not be a viable option depending on where you are and what's available. And you have to develop standards of conduct, or your league of independent operators can still have its bad apples. that would need to be stated explicitly up front when registering teams.

We entered a great travel league two years ago and returned last winter, just because it was organized by a couple of AAU coaches who simply wanted some quality competition over the winter. No standings, no awards - just the chance to run the court and play some ball against the best.

As for won-loss records, those are for parents and some of the players. The bottom line is whether or not you are getting good competition and good experience. If you coach right, the W-L usually takes care of itself over time, but not always at the outset. W-L is NOT the object at this age, player develpment is the only real goal.

[Ref in PA]

I agree with all of the responses that I read on this subject. It seems to me the individual is not much of a coach if he relies upon insulting, yelling, and demeaning young teenagers in effort to get improved performance. By focusing all the blame on the players, he is removing blame from himself and his own inadequacies as a coach. There is a difference between one who has the job and title of "coach" and one who is a true and respected coach.

My niece plays for a similar type coach on the high school level. Players have quit and now it is being noticed. This will be the coach's last year at this school.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

Starting your own league is definitely an option, but the problem of finding quality coaches will remain. ...

As for won-loss records, those are for parents and some of the players. The bottom line is whether or not you are getting good competition and good experience. If you coach right, the W-L usually takes care of itself over time, but not always at the outset. W-L is NOT the object at this age, player develpment is the only real goal.

Hawks' Coach -- I agree 100% about win-loss record. I was assuming that the original team was pushing very hard for win-loss, and not making it, and that another team could do just as well, thus demonstrating that the abusive tactics weren't "working".

I wan't saying Jellybeads should start a new LEAGUE, just a new team, or club. If the dad would pull out of the club, too, and coach his daughter's team, I would think it would make a strong statement, and might facilitate a big change in the community over all.