Crossing Over in College Basketball

[ilyazhito]

I am currently a women's college basketball official at the JUCO level. In my experience, the games are better than high school girls, because the players are more talented than high school players. I have enjoyed working the college games I have had.

At the same time, I have been thinking about switching to men's college basketball, for several reasons. First, men's games would be more challenging to work, because the skill level and athletic ability are higher than for comparable women's games. Second, men's games start later. This means that I will have greater availability to work a men's game on a weeknight than a women's game.

For those of you who made the switch, how did it work? Was there anything about your officiating style that you had to change?

[Raymond]

Realize you don't just automatically get hired on the other just because you've decided to switch. You should get some feedback from your supervisor who assigns both.

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[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Realize you don't just automatically get hired on the other just because you've decided to switch. You should get some feedback from your supervisor who assigns both.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

I do know that I'll have to try out again as a men's official.

To my understanding, NCAAW officials tend to call the game in a more black and white fashion. This is because they are directed to call the rules as written, both in training materials and in the published points of emphasis.

The men's points of emphasis (major officiating concerns), on the other hand, ask officials to "enforce the rules while finding a balance between the art and science of officiating". This means that some things might be called more loosely than in a women's game.

I am aware of the mechanics differences between the 2 games (walk and talk vs. stop and report, L responsibility for the corner 3, women using the 3 boxes vs men using the NFHS PCAs) and the rules differences (flopping is charged to the team in NCAAW, but to the player as a Class B technical in NCAAM, under the basket vs. painted RA, option to advance in the last minute only in NCAAW).

Are there other things I should know? Do coaches tend to behave differently at women's games vs. men's games? I'd like to hear from anyone that had experience making the transition. JRutledge did, but I suspect that there are others who crossed over to the men's game more recently.

[Raymond]

The biggest difference between mens and women's college basketball is airborne athleticism and refereeing those plays. Rules differences and mechanics differences are things you will learn, but adjusting to the type of play is the important part.

(Men's officials are now allowed to walk and report now).

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I am currently a women's college basketball official at the JUCO level. In my experience, the games are better than high school girls, because the players are more talented than high school players. I have enjoyed working the college games I have had.

At the same time, I have been thinking about switching to men's college basketball, for several reasons. First, men's games would be more challenging to work, because the skill level and athletic ability are higher than for comparable women's games. Second, men's games start later. This means that I will have greater availability to work a men's game on a weeknight than a women's game.

For those of you who made the switch, how did it work? Was there anything about your officiating style that you had to change?

Making the "switch" is not honestly your choice. I say that because an assignor has to pick you up and working college is not like telling the assignor you are interested and they give you a game. You have to be picked.

Secondly, there are assignors on the Men's side who do not think Women's officials are that good. Why? Because the athleticism and things you call cannot be marginal as they are often called in Women's game. There is often a higher threshold for players when they are at the rim to what you call. It is not the same.


Finally, the Men's mechanics are also rather different which a lot of Women's officials do not want to adhere to. Stopping the clock on everything and walking and talking is more acceptable, but not the way Women's ball tends to do it IMO. So many things can make you stand out as a "Women's official" and could eliminate you, along with a lot of competition. Most officials are trying to get into Men's ball so trying to get a slot takes time and sometimes several tries.

Good luck with the attempt but it just does not happen because that is something you desire to do. Maybe at the HS level (not in all areas) but certainly not in college ball where the accountability is much more from a game-to-game basis.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Making the "switch" is not honestly your choice. I say that because an assignor has to pick you up and working college is not like telling the assignor you are interested and they give you a game. You have to be picked.

Secondly, there are assignors on the Men's side who do not think Women's officials are that good. Why? Because the athleticism and things you call cannot be marginal as they are often called in Women's game. There is often a higher threshold for players when they are at the rim to what you call. It is not the same.


Finally, the Men's mechanics are also rather different which a lot of Women's officials do not want to adhere to. Stopping the clock on everything and walking and talking is more acceptable, but not the way Women's ball tends to do it IMO. So many things can make you stand out as a "Women's official" and could eliminate you, along with a lot of competition. Most officials are trying to get into Men's ball so trying to get a slot takes time and sometimes several tries.

Good luck with the attempt but it just does not happen because that is something you desire to do. Maybe at the HS level (not in all areas) but certainly not in college ball where the accountability is much more from a game-to-game basis.

Peace

One of the reasons I started this thread is because I read about how you did this. In the "Can A College Basketball Official Work Both Sexes" thread, you mentioned that you were a women's college official in the early 2000s for about two years, but then you got disillusioned and stopped doing women's college basketball. You tried out and eventually got hired as a men's official.

The officiating industry has changed since then, so I would like to know if it is still possible. There are female officials who now work men's college basketball (Amy Bonner is probably the most prominent example), but they did not get into men's basketball the traditional way. They were recruited due to their success in women's college or international basketball.

If I understand correctly, I would be fighting an uphill battle to try out as a men's college official, because many assigners do not believe that women's college officials are good. This might be due to the philosophical, rules, and mechanics differences between the two sides.

The mechanics part won't be that difficult, because men's mechanics share a lot in common with NFHS. I would need to get used to the extra signals that are not in NFHS and the restricted area. I could also adapt to men's rules with enough game experience.

Are there differences in how coaches interact with men's officials as compared to women's officials? I have seen the videos of coaches behaving badly in both men's and women's games (Kim Mulkey, Dan Hurley, and Steve Forbes are the most recent examples that come to mind), but I don't have any other points of reference.

There are some differences in how men's and women's officials deal with coaches. I do notice that women's officials are encouraged to use the stop sign when warning coaches, because it shows up on film. I've not seen men's officials using the stop sign as often, probably because it can aggravate the coach. Women also have a formal warning for behavior, like NFHS, but men don't.

[Raymond]

But you already work for a college supervisor who assigns both mens and women's college basketball. So you really don't need to wonder about your potential to cross over. You can get a direct answer. The supervisor is already familiar with your work. He already knows how you would stack up against officials on his men's staff.

You also have access to officials for the men's side who are familiar with your work and your personality. They can also give you direct answers as to your prospects. You would be better served to get direct feedback instead of from random people on the internet who are not familiar with you. All the questions you are asking here can also be answered by those same individuals.

If you get answers you don't like, then yes, you would be starting from absolute ground zero as you venture out to other men's conferences with supervisors who are unfamiliar with you.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

One of the reasons I started this thread is because I read about how you did this. In the "Can A College Basketball Official Work Both Sexes" thread, you mentioned that you were a women's college official in the early 2000s for about two years, but then you got disillusioned and stopped doing women's college basketball. You tried out and eventually got hired as a men's official.

The officiating industry has changed since then, so I would like to know if it is still possible. There are female officials who now work men's college basketball (Amy Bonner is probably the most prominent example), but they did not get into men's basketball the traditional way. They were recruited due to their success in women's college or international basketball.

If I understand correctly, I would be fighting an uphill battle to try out as a men's college official, because many assigners do not believe that women's college officials are good. This might be due to the philosophical, rules, and mechanics differences between the two sides.

The mechanics part won't be that difficult, because men's mechanics share a lot in common with NFHS. I would need to get used to the extra signals that are not in NFHS and the restricted area. I could also adapt to men's rules with enough game experience.

Are there differences in how coaches interact with men's officials as compared to women's officials? I have seen the videos of coaches behaving badly in both men's and women's games (Kim Mulkey, Dan Hurley, and Steve Forbes are the most recent examples that come to mind), but I don't have any other points of reference.

There are some differences in how men's and women's officials deal with coaches. I do notice that women's officials are encouraged to use the stop sign when warning coaches, because it shows up on film. I've not seen men's officials using the stop sign as often, probably because it can aggravate the coach. Women also have a formal warning for behavior, like NFHS, but men don't.

The situation that I did is also very different than it is today. For one the assigning process was not as regimented. Guys got hired a lot without having to prove it in camp or work for someone who did not assign high school ball. We also had every level imaginable other than D1 assigned by a local guy. That is not the case in other parts of the country. There are places that have no NAIA, but only JUCO and D2. There are places that have no NAIA, but only D2. And I could give many more examples based on where you are in the country.

It also took a few years to get to the Men's side. I worked some JUCO as a fill in, but it would be only about 2 or 3 games total a season until I got into an NAIA league. Even then I only worked a handful of games. It was not until a D1 friend of mine told me to go to a camp I never would have imagined and I would get hired. That was less than 7 years ago. Now I work mostly a college schedule on Saturdays. It is not what you think, trust me on that one.

Peace