Need help with this one?

[Jqb12]

Offensive player is attempting a 3 point shot in front of opposing team's bench.
Opposing team's player comes off the bench and fouls the shooter. Ball does not go in. How do you proceed?
Thanks

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

Offensive player is attempting a 3 point shot in front of opposing team's bench. Opposing team's player comes off the bench and fouls the shooter. Ball does not go in. How do you proceed?

Flagrant foul on offending bench player, who is disqualified.

4-19-4: A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent nature involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or non-contact at any time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct.

Indirect technical foul on offending team head coach, who takes a seat.

Can a player in the act of shooting be fouled by a non-player?

If yes, three free throws for that offended player (no rebounders).

Two free throws for any player (or eligible substitute) on the offended team (no rebounders).

Offended team gets ball opposite tableside on division line.

[ChuckS]

I would call a Bench Technical, for unauthorized entry onto the court. Ideally would be called immediately, making the "foul" and result of the shot moot.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Can a player in the act of shooting be fouled by a non-player? If yes, three free throws for that offended player (no rebounders).

For me, this (above) is the most difficult part of any interpretation regarding this situation.

Sure, we could "nit pick" the wording of a flagrant foul (technical, personal, live ball, dead ball, contact, no contact), but "not limited to" takes care of all of that and this kid gets "tossed" (to the bench) every day and twice on Sunday in my game, and the CIAC can make sure that he also "sits" the next game. Damn the paperwork, full speed ahead (with apologies to Admiral Farragut).

[bob jenkins]

SITUATION 12: Team B has just scored to go up by three points with time running out in the fourth quarter. Player A1 inbounds the ball to A2 close to the sideline of Team B's bench. A2 releases a three-point try just prior to the horn sounding. Substitute B7 leaves the bench area, enters the court and blocks the shot. RULING: B7 shall be charged with two technical fouls and ejected. One technical foul is assessed for entering the court without permission and one for unsporting conduct. Any member of Team A may shoot the four free throws for the technical fouls. The results of these free throws will determine if the game is over or going into overtime. COMMENT: Two technical fouls must be assessed in this situation. Otherwise, the team committing the infraction would benefit from the act. (10-4-1; 10-4-2)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

SITUATION 12: Team B has just scored to go up by three points with time running out in the fourth quarter. Player A1 inbounds the ball to A2 close to the sideline of Team B's bench. A2 releases a three-point try just prior to the horn sounding. Substitute B7 leaves the bench area, enters the court and blocks the shot. RULING: B7 shall be charged with two technical fouls and ejected. One technical foul is assessed for entering the court without permission and one for unsporting conduct. Any member of Team A may shoot the four free throws for the technical fouls. The results of these free throws will determine if the game is over or going into overtime. COMMENT: Two technical fouls must be assessed in this situation. Otherwise, the team committing the infraction would benefit from the act. (10-4-1; 10-4-2)

Thanks for going way back to 2005-06 bob jenkins.

We have to come up with some very technical and specific "work around" rule language to fairly take care of the situation.

That's how the FBI eventually got Al Capone, not for being a murderous gangster, bootlegger, racketeer, and mobster, but for income tax evasion.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... so we have to come up with some very technical and specific "work around" rule language to fairly take care of the situation.

Somehow we need to find an excuse to give the offended team at least three free throws.

It can't be just two free throws for one flagrant foul.

So throw the book at him and come up with any and all relevant rule infractions that "stick".

A guy visits his doctor and the doctor says, “Well, I’m sorry to say you’ve got six weeks to live.”

“I want a second opinion,” says the guy.

“You want a second opinion? OK,” says the doctor. “You’re ugly, too.”

[BillyMac]

Just noticed that the interpretation was not a foul, but a blocked shot.

Original situation was a foul, is it handled differently than a blocked shot?

What if the ball had gone in the basket?

Is the ball dead immediately, or does continuous motion apply here?

[bucky]

Wouldn't the only way to get 3 FTs for the shooter be if it was adjudicated as an intentional foul? If so, someone could easily argue that point....after all, the bench person clearly, and intentionally, performed the entire act.

Seems like the case play is the best route and the reasons could be used even if the player was fouled. Eject the offender, allow 4 FTs, and give them the ball too.

[bwburke94]

I have a technical foul (for entering the court without permission) and an intentional technical foul (for "contact that neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position"). Because the intentional technical foul was in the act of shooting a three-point shot, it awards three free throws rather than the usual two.

Accordingly:

• The substitute is charged with two technical fouls (one of them intentional) and is disqualified.
• The offending team's head coach is charged with an indirect technical foul. In every state except my own, the offending team's head coach loses the privilege of the coaching box.
• Two team fouls are added to the team's foul count.
• The offended team receives five free throws (two for the technical foul and three for the intentional technical foul), and receives the ball at the division line for a throw-in.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Thanks for going way back to 2005-06 bob jenkins.

We have to come up with some very technical and specific "work around" rule language to fairly take care of the situation.

That's how the FBI eventually got Al Capone, not for being a murderous gangster, bootlegger, racketeer, and mobster, but for income tax evasion.

Hmmmmm… I wonder who came up with that situation years ago on this forum causing it to get forwarded to the NFHS committee for a ruling. Now who could it be?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

I have a technical foul (for entering the court without permission) and an intentional technical foul (for "contact that neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position"). Because the intentional technical foul was in the act of shooting a three-point shot, it awards three free throws rather than the usual two.

Accordingly:

• The substitute is charged with two technical fouls (one of them intentional) and is disqualified.
• The offending team's head coach is charged with an indirect technical foul. In every state except my own, the offending team's head coach loses the privilege of the coaching box.
• Two team fouls are added to the team's foul count.
• The offended team receives five free throws (two for the technical foul and three for the intentional technical foul), and receives the ball at the division line for a throw-in.

Sorry, but the penalty for a technical foul is ALWAYS two free throws and never one or three. That’s sclearly spelled out in the penalty section for fouls in the rules book. Only a personal foul can result in three free throws. Hence, the quoted play ruling from about twenty years ago.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Can a player in the act of shooting be fouled by a non-player?

If yes, three free throws for that offended player (no rebounders).

A foul by a non-player is a technical foul per the definition in Rule 4. Hence, it must be two FTs, not 3. Therefore, the reason that two technical fouls must be assessed in such a situation in order to preserve basic fairness.

[bwburke94]

It's a technical foul, but it's also an intentional foul. This is the type of thing non-officials (myself included) can get confused on.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Two team fouls are added to the team's foul count.

Good point.