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-   -   Team Control Player Control Difference ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/106164-team-control-player-control-difference.html)

BillyMac Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:50am
Give That Man A Cigar ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1052068)
... the try had been released by the shooter ... the whole reason that you could shoot the FTs in this situation is that it was NOT a player control foul. Once the shooter released the ball, there was no player control. So it was a charge in a loose-ball situation. But not a player control foul.
Bingo.

BillyMac Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:01pm
Ancient Times ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1052069)
They could have combined the categories when they went to the "no FTs for a TC foul" rule a dozen or so years ago.
It was definitely much more than a dozen years ago when we stopped (NFHS) shooting bonus free throws (down on the other end of the court) for "charges" in which the ball had already been released (where the basket could actually count if the ball went in the basket).

It was way back in ancient times, possibly thirty-plus, maybe thirty-five-plus, years ago, way back in the Holocene geological epoch.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/98/4c/62/9...rehistoric.jpg

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Feb 12, 2024 09:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1052063)
Agree. Practical was poor word choice.

Bottom line: All player control fouls are not necessarily also team control fouls.

Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?

MTD, Sr.

bob jenkins Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1052072)
Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?

MTD, Sr.
Airborne shooter.

BillyMac Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:12am
Ball Released ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1052072)
Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1052073)
Airborne shooter ...
... who has released the ball for a try.

bob jenkins Tue Feb 13, 2024 01:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1052075)
... who has released the ball for a try.
Isn't that redundant?

Can you give an example of an Airborne Shooter who has not released the ball? (Hint: The answer is "no".)

BillyMac Tue Feb 13, 2024 02:43pm
Continuous Motion ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1052076)
Can you give an example of an Airborne Shooter who has not released the ball?
A ball handler becomes airborne (ball comes to rest in the player’s hands) and starts his continuous trying motion. The trying motion includes arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his basket. All of this before the ball is released on a try. The player becomes an airborne shooter when both feet have left the floor and are off the ground.

Maybe he didn't release the ball because an opponent "clamped down" on his wrist?

Maybe he quite doesn't fit the official definition (ball released) of a NFHS "airborne shooter", but he certainly is airborne, and he certainly is in the act of shooting, thus he's a generic airborne shooter.

BillyMac Tue Feb 13, 2024 04:56pm
Airborne Shooter ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1052079)
A ball handler becomes airborne (ball comes to rest in the player’s hands) and starts his continuous trying motion. The trying motion includes arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his basket. All of this before the ball is released on a try. The player becomes an airborne shooter when both feet have left the floor and are off the ground.
He's a shooter, and he's airborne, but he's not an airborne shooter.

4-1-1:An airborne shooter is a player who has released the ball on a try for a goal or has tapped the ball and has not returned to the floor.

Let's just say that he is a shooter that's airborne.

bob jenkins Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1052081)

Let's just say that he is a shooter that's airborne.
who's

BillyMac Wed Feb 14, 2024 10:53am
Don’t Give Up, I Believe In You All …
 
… a person’s a person, no matter how small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1052083)
who's
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.D...=Api&P=0&h=180

Camron Rust Thu Feb 15, 2024 03:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1052039)
For a veteran such as yourself, the difference used to be that a goal could be scored on a player control foul if the try had been released prior to contact and the foul was therefore by an airborne shooter, while a team control foul always prevented any score. Of course that rule changed several years ago. College even changed it.

No more counting a goal and then going to the opposite end for bonus FTs.

Best not to confuse the rookies with this though.

It was once that way, but the progression, I believe, was slightly different.

Early on....it was as you said, the shot would count if released prior to contact. Yes TCFs prevented a score, but the offended team got FTs if in the bonus.

At some point, the PCF was changes to not shoot FTs regardless of the timing of the foul relative to the release. TCF's were still subject to FTs if in the bonus.

Later, the TCF was changed to match the PCF (no FTs).


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