The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 3.00 average. Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 22, 2023, 08:24pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,688
I haven't read through all 9 pages of the thread, so I apologize if it's been addressed. And I know that the new interps haven't been released yet. Having said all that. . .

Quote:
7-5-2 thru 5: Establishes four throw-in spots (the nearest 28-feet mark along each sideline or the nearest spot 3-feet outside the lane line on the end line) when the ball is in team control in the offensive team’s frontcourt and the defensive team commits a violation, a common foul prior to the bonus, or the ball becomes dead.
To me, this sounds like after a backcourt violation, the ball will be put in play at the spot closest to where the violation occurred, rather than one of the 4 pre-determined spots. The violation is committed by the offense (not the defense) in the offensive team's backcourt (not the frontcourt).

However, the ball is being put in play in the offensive team's frontcourt. So in NCAA-M, we put the ball in play at one of the 4 spots. But the way the FED rule is written, it looks me to like we're going to the spot closest to wherever the violation occurs.

Think I'm reading this correctly?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 23, 2023, 04:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
I haven't read through all 9 pages of the thread, so I apologize if it's been addressed. And I know that the new interps haven't been released yet. Having said all that. . .



To me, this sounds like after a backcourt violation, the ball will be put in play at the spot closest to where the violation occurred, rather than one of the 4 pre-determined spots. The violation is committed by the offense (not the defense) in the offensive team's backcourt (not the frontcourt).

However, the ball is being put in play in the offensive team's frontcourt. So in NCAA-M, we put the ball in play at one of the 4 spots. But the way the FED rule is written, it looks me to like we're going to the spot closest to wherever the violation occurs.

Think I'm reading this correctly?
I think you're reading it correctly, but my guess is that we'll end up doing what NCAA-M does, either by the actual wording of the rule when it is published or by interpretation and eventually, by rule.

A better wording would be that one of the 4 spots is used when there is a non-OOB violation occurs such that the throwin will be in the frontcourt of the team being awarded the ball.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 23, 2023, 06:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I think you're reading it correctly, but my guess is that we'll end up doing what NCAA-M does,

FWIW, in NCAAW, we'd go the the spot nearest the violation, not one of the 4 designated spots. So, either might be right for FED.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 23, 2023, 09:04am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
I haven't read through all 9 pages of the thread, so I apologize if it's been addressed. And I know that the new interps haven't been released yet. Having said all that. . .



To me, this sounds like after a backcourt violation, the ball will be put in play at the spot closest to where the violation occurred, rather than one of the 4 pre-determined spots. The violation is committed by the offense (not the defense) in the offensive team's backcourt (not the frontcourt).

However, the ball is being put in play in the offensive team's frontcourt. So in NCAA-M, we put the ball in play at one of the 4 spots. But the way the FED rule is written, it looks me to like we're going to the spot closest to wherever the violation occurs.

Think I'm reading this correctly?

We do not have clarification on what the rule ultimately will be. Even the NCAA Men's rule had some changes over the last few years when it was first implemented. It appears that we will always put the ball at the 4 spots for any regular violation or regular foul if the offense has the ball in their FC. But they did not address the out-of-bounds violations that NCAA Men's does not use those 4 spots but uses the spot the ball was declared out of bounds. So there are a lot of questions as to what the rule will be. We just know they made a change, but do not know all the details. Because in order to take on the NCAA rule, they would have to change multiple situations to make that clear. Like even what do we do with technical fouls for example. All things are going to need to be clarified and other rules will have to be changed or altered to fit this rule cogently.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 23, 2023, 10:57am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
All things are going to need to be clarified and other rules will have to be changed or altered to fit this rule cogently.
Yeah, I'm sure that's going to happen.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 23, 2023, 05:03pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Yeah, I'm sure that's going to happen.
Well in this case if they don't they will cause a lot of inconsistency all over the place. So I hope thought went into this before the change. Like speaking to the NCAA about what they did when creating this rule. We can only hope at this point.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 24, 2023, 08:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 30
Quote:
7-5-2 thru 5: Establishes four throw-in spots (the nearest 28-feet mark along each sideline or the nearest spot 3-feet outside the lane line on the end line) when the ball is in team control in the offensive team’s frontcourt and the defensive team commits a violation, a common foul prior to the bonus, or the ball becomes dead. The one exception is when the defensive team causes a ball to be out of bounds, the throw-in shall be the spot where the ball went out of bounds. Rationale: Simplifies throw-in procedure when there is team control in the frontcourt and the defensive team commits a violation.
Assuming this will also apply to the offensive team turning it over in their backcourt, but given NFHS you never know.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 24, 2023, 10:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 633
There has not been a pre-season bulletin published yet, so how are you'all assuming these changes?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 25, 2023, 01:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
There has not been a pre-season bulletin published yet, so how are you'all assuming these changes?
No assumptions. They were announced last week: https://www.nfhs.org/articles/free-t...rules-changes/
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 25, 2023, 07:24am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well in this case if they don't they will cause a lot of inconsistency all over the place. So I hope thought went into this before the change. Like speaking to the NCAA about what they did when creating this rule. We can only hope at this point.

Peace
That seems like a victory of optimism over experience.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 25, 2023, 10:07am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
That seems like a victory of optimism over experience.
I have also learned until the information comes out, we do not know what was ultimately intended. They obviously took a college rule, but the real question is did they read what they were adopting.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 23, 2023, 01:13pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,379
Enquiring Minds Want To Know ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
... this sounds like after a backcourt violation, the ball will be put in play at the spot closest to where the violation occurred, rather than one of the 4 pre-determined spots. The violation is committed by the offense (not the defense) in the offensive team's backcourt (not the frontcourt). However, the ball is being put in play in the offensive team's frontcourt ...
Great point. I like how Scrapper1 critically thinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Those mandatory pre-season rules meetings this fall are not going to be the 20-minute social calls they’ve been in recent years.
Hopefully the NFHS will clarify all the many questions broached in this thread with more precise rule language and interpretations before the local fall meetings take place.

My local interpreter is often reluctant to take "deep dive" and "rabbit hole" type questions, sometimes leaving the membership with inconsistent and confusing interpretations.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue May 23, 2023 at 05:01pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NCAA Purposed changes (2023-2024) JRutledge Basketball 18 Mon May 08, 2023 07:22pm
2023-24 NFHS Basketball Rules Questionnaire BillyMac Basketball 17 Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:58pm
NFHS new rules 2023-2024 Scrapper1 Volleyball 1 Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:08am
Spring 2023 NFHS Softball Rules Changes. Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Softball 5 Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:36am
NCAA rules changes announced Scrapper1 Basketball 25 Tue May 31, 2011 09:54pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1