Was it really that bad?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(NFHS) Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle sounds.

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

NFHS DOG ... warning ...

I'm already doing this in my high school games, of course it's not sanctioned or approved by anybody. Nothing ends up being written in the scorebook.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As an official I've warned players about this kind of activity on many occasions, even stopping the game to have a serious chat with the player, but I've never called it, or observed it called.

Yeah, I'm a whatcha call a rebel.

My baby's always the one to try
the things they've never done
And just because of that, they say
He's a rebel and he'll never ever be any good
He's a rebel 'cause he never ever does what he should
But just because he doesn't do what everybody else does
That's no reason why I can't give him all my love

I would actually like the NFHS to list this as a fifth delay warning.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(NFHS) Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle sounds.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As an official I've warned players about this kind of activity on many occasions, even stopping the game to have a serious chat with the player, but I've never called it, or observed it called.

Players and coaches no longer seem to know this rule.

Back in ancient times all players knew to toss the ball to the nearest official.

Of course, back then they also knew to raise their hand if they were charged with a foul.

Ancient times were often "more polite" times, seems that there was more respect for officials back then.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's not about the delay, it's about the act of making somebody fetch the ball when you could handed it to an official, or just simply left the ball alone. Instead she CHOSE to grab the ball and purposely toss it towards the stands and away from the official. It's rolled up into the DOG rule allow for a warning instead of immediately going to a Tech.

It is also about the situation you are officiating. Yes, you do need to officiating a national championship game differently than you do an early season game. In my opinion, this call should not have been made, and nothing any of the so-called experts on this forum can say will change my mind on that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

It is also about the situation you are officiating. Yes, you do need to officiating a national championship game differently than you do an early season game. In my opinion, this call should not have been made, and nothing any of the so-called experts on this forum can say will change my mind on that.

Thanks for the info. If that's what you were told to do when you ref'd that level of game, fine. I'm sure it won't change anybody else's opinion though.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

It is also about the situation you are officiating. Yes, you do need to officiating a national championship game differently than you do an early season game. In my opinion, this call should not have been made, and nothing any of the so-called experts on this forum can say will change my mind on that.

The only thing that should be done is recognize the emotion of the game is going to be different. But that does not mean you change the entire rulebook or ignore things you would not during the year. They got there because of what they did during the regular season. So as stated, opinion is noted, but I disagree with that premise.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But that does not mean you change the entire rulebook or ignore things you would not during the year.

I can not ignore ( I can address) and at the same time not charge a technical foul, a technical foul that I've never see called in my fifty-five years around interscholastic basketball.

That said, the college rule is worded differently than the high school rule, and I'm not a college official.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But that does not mean you change the entire rulebook or ignore things you would not during the year.

NFHS 4-47-4: Warning For Delay: A warning to a team for delay is an administrative procedure by an official which is recorded in the scorebook by the scorer and reported to the head coach: For failure to have the court ready for play following any timeout as in 10-2-1f.

NFHS 10-2-1-F Team Technical: Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes the following and similar acts: Not having the court ready for play following any time-out after any team warning for delay.

This high school rule (above) has been around for long time, and when it was first introduced the example given was water being spilled on the floor.

Despite the “water on the floor” rule being around for a long time, I’ve never called it, nor have I ever seen it called, probably for reasons of appearing overly officious, it being accidental, a common part of the game, not causing any advantage or disadvantage, and only taking a few extra seconds to clean up.

I was observing a friend (former science student of mine) in a state tournament semifinal a few weeks ago.

He, and of his two partners, are “regular” state final officials (after this semifinal game all three moved onto a state final), so all are considered to be some of the best officials in Connecticut.

During a charged timeout water was accidentally spilled the floor and had to be cleaned up, delaying the game by less than a minute, not much longer than any other water spillage I’ve ever observed.

My friend and one of his partners had a short chat and then my friend, the referee, had a delay warning recorded in the scorebook (no previous delay warning of any type) and reported it to both head coaches.

Since I’ve never called a “water on the floor” delay , nor have I ever seen it called, during the post-game conference I asked about the warning and if they had considered passing on the warning.

My friend (the son of a college and high school basketball coach, a truly outstanding high school player, a truly outstanding high school assistant coach, and now a truly outstanding basketball official) replied, “NOT IN A STATE SEMIFINAL”, and then later followed up by admitting that he may have, "Passed on it in a regular season game".

Maybe things are (and should be) called differently in big time, win or go home, games?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS 10-2-1-F Team Technical: Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes the following and similar acts: Not having the court ready for play following any time-out after any team warning for delay.

Just wondering ... Does "time-out" literally mean a "charged" timeout or can it be any "generic" timeout, for example water spilled during any intermission and delaying the game after the intermission?

[JRutledge]

There was delay called earlier and unlike HS basketball they have a delay for not giving the ball to the officials (football actually has a similar rule BTW). Now that being said, if a delay had been called before, then it is expected you know this as a player and act accordingly. Not the same rule in the NF, but you can give a T for that action and it is not apart of the delay. Now her action was done in anger and that is why she got the T, not just because she threw the ball. It probably had been ignored if she had just let the ball lay, but she threw it so there you go.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There was delay called earlier and unlike HS basketball they have a delay for not giving the ball to the officials. Now that being said, if a delay had been called before, then it is expected you know this as a player and act accordingly. Not the same rule in the NF, but you can give a T for that action and it is not apart of the delay.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That said, the college rule is worded differently than the high school rule, and I'm not a college official.

Agree.

In high school basketball we can't give any official warning for not giving the ball to the officials, the NFHS expects us to go directly to a technical foul, which many of us (at least me) are reluctant to do.

I college, not giving the ball to the officials is grouped in with the other delay situations, and in the absence of any previous delays, it can be warned.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree.

In high school basketball we can't give any official warning for not giving the ball to the officials, the NFHS expects us to go directly to a technical foul, which many of us (at least me) are reluctant to do.

I college, not giving the ball to the officials is grouped in with the other delay situations, and in the absence of any previous delays, it can be warned.

I do not work women's college basketball so I do not know what their standard is to even call this. All I know is that I will T a kid if they are blatantly disrespectful. Meaning they clearly push the ball away and I have seen guys literally tell the player, "If you do not go get that ball, I am T'ing you up." I have seen officials at the college level do that in games I was on and it worked. But not seen a T just for that reason alone, it is usually when a player is doing extra. I am going to assume that the T in this game was something they addressed and she just did not comply. Again, if the player does not do this then there is no issue.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not work women's college basketball so I do not know what their standard is to even call this. All I know is that I will T a kid if they are blatantly disrespectful.

That's the general standard.

Didn't watch the game and have no idea whether there were already "unofficial warnings" given

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

"If you do not go get that ball, I am T'ing you up."

Sounds similar to what I say in my high school games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That's the general standard.

Didn't watch the game and have no idea whether there were already "unofficial warnings" given

According to the pool reporter, there was one given by the official. The T was the second offense.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

According to the pool reporter, there was one given by the official. The T was the second offense.

Yes, I believe that the first delay offense was an "official" delay warning for attempting to gain an advantage by interfering with the ball after a goal.