Was it really that bad?

[Raymond]

Funny thing is, when the incident happened and and I found out what she did, my original thought was "just give her a delay warning." That's what a lot of NBA guys say to do in that situation so that players know it's not alright to toss the ball away from us like that without having to penalize them. But since they already had a delay warning, it cost her a technical.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

"just give her a delay warning." ... But since they already had a delay warning, it cost her a technical.

NCAA: "Rule reference – Rule 10, Section 12, Article 3K. The definition of the delay can be found in Rule 4, Section 9, Article 1F, by failing to and it reads, attempting to gain an advantage by interfering with the ball after a goal, or by failing to immediately pass the ball to the nearest official after the whistle is blown."

NCAA: (Referee Lisa Jones) cited Rule 4, Section 9, Article 1F of the rulebook, which reads that a player can be assessed a foul for “attempting to gain an advantage by interfering with the ball after a goal or by failing to immediately pass the ball to the nearest official after a whistle is blown.” In the same section, the rulebook states that “one team warning shall be given for each of the delays in Rule 4-9.1.d through g.” “Thereafter, a technical foul shall be assessed for the delay that has previously received a team warning,” it reads.

NCAA-W Rule 4 Section 9 Delay
Art. 1. A delay is any action that impedes the progress or continuity of the game. Such actions include, but are not limited to:
a. Failure to supply scorers with data per Rule 3-4.1;
b. Consuming a full minute by not being ready when it is time to start either half or any ovretime;
c. Delaying the game by preventing the ball from being promptly made live or by preventing continuous play, such as but not limited to, followers or bench personnel entering the playing court before player activity has been terminated. When the delay does not interfere with play, it shall be ignored, and play shall be continued or be resumed at the point of interruption;
d. Repeatedly delaying the game by preventing the ball from being promptly put into play, such as delaying the administration of a throw-in or free throw by engaging in a team huddle anywhere on the playing court;
e. Failure to have the court ready for play after the final horn to end any timeout;
f. Attempting to gain an advantage by interfering with the ball after a goal or by failing to immediately pass the ball to the nearest official after a whistle is blown; or
g. The opponents of the thrower-in having any part of their person beyond the vertical inside plane of any boundary line before the ball has crossed that boundary line.
Art. 2. One team warning shall be given for each of the delays in Rule 4-9.1.d through .g. Each warning shall be reported to the official scorer. Thereafter, a technical foul shall be assessed for the delay that has previously received a team warning.

It appears that the NCAA treats "failing to immediately pass the ball to the nearest official after a whistle is blown" like many other delays, including giving a warning for such a delay, whereas the NFHS does not allow (or require) a warning for delay for "failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle sounds".

The NFHS technical foul, while "technically" for a delay, is somewhat "free standing" and does not allow (or require) a warning for such a delay.

NFHS 10-4- 5: A player must not: Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.
b. Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle sounds.
c. The free thrower fails to be in the free-throw semicircle when the official is ready to administer the free throw unless the resumption-of-play procedure is in effect following a time-out or intermission.
d. Repeated violations of the throw-in, as in 9-2-10.

RULE 4 - SECTION 47
NFHS 4-47: Warning For Delay: A warning to a team for delay is an administrative procedure by an official which is recorded in the scorebook by the scorer and reported to the head coach:
ART. 1 . . . For throw-in plane violations, as in 9-2-10, 10-2-1c.
ART. 2 . . . For huddle by either team and contact with the free thrower, as in 10-2-1d.
ART. 3 . . . For interfering with the ball following a goal as in 10-2-1e.
ART. 4 . . . For failure to have the court ready for play following any timeout as in 10-2-1f.

I wonder if this now infamous NCAA play will confuse some NFHS officials to incorrectly believe that "failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle sounds" allows (or requires) a warning for delay in their high school games (in essence, an incorrect fifth warning for delay situation).

This wouldn't be the first time some high school officials confused NFHS and NCAA rules (see backcourt deflection, backboard goaltending, etc.).

[The_Rookie]

Would not be surprised if discussion takes place on the penalty. NFHS DOG after warning it is a Foul on the team and not charged to player. maybe NCAAW look at making this the HS penalty.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(NFHS) Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle sounds.

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

NFHS DOG ... warning ...

I'm already doing this in my high school games, of course it's not sanctioned or approved by anybody. Nothing ends up being written in the scorebook.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As an official I've warned players about this kind of activity on many occasions, even stopping the game to have a serious chat with the player, but I've never called it, or observed it called.

Yeah, I'm a whatcha call a rebel.

My baby's always the one to try
the things they've never done
And just because of that, they say
He's a rebel and he'll never ever be any good
He's a rebel 'cause he never ever does what he should
But just because he doesn't do what everybody else does
That's no reason why I can't give him all my love

I would actually like the NFHS to list this as a fifth delay warning.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(NFHS) Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle sounds.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As an official I've warned players about this kind of activity on many occasions, even stopping the game to have a serious chat with the player, but I've never called it, or observed it called.

Players and coaches no longer seem to know this rule.

Back in ancient times all players knew to toss the ball to the nearest official.

Of course, back then they also knew to raise their hand if they were charged with a foul.

Ancient times were often "more polite" times, seems that there was more respect for officials back then.

[Raymond]

Why are there like seven paragraphs that have nothing to do with officiating?

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Why are there like seven paragraphs that have nothing to do with officiating?

...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Now could somebody please help me down from this soapbox. I've been blathering on for too long a time on too many subjects and I'm getting dizzy up here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Why are there like seven paragraphs that have nothing to do with officiating?

Or nothing to do with the topic? Typical of Billy. You know this already.

Peace

[Multiple Sports]

It was a great three weeks on this site. The threads regarding the tournament were intelligent and it was an enjoyable read without one poster hijacking threads and answering his own questions in the next post. Time to go back to Facebook conversations...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

The threads regarding the tournament were intelligent and it was an enjoyable read without one poster hijacking threads and answering his own questions in the next post.

Me?

Was it really that bad?

I believe that I intelligently contributed (even though I'm a high school official) to this thread with multiple posts on different situations presented in the NCAA-W final game (and similar situations):

1) Caitlin Clark’s technical foul (I posted about it minutes after Nevadaref without reading his post), the possibly confusing-to-some complex compound sentence written rule (but with clear purpose and intent), and the difference between the NCAA rule (as infamously observed in the NCAA-W final) and the NFHS rule seeding some future possible high school confusion.

2) Coach Mulkey on the court and accidentally coming into contact with the official (I was the first to post about it).

3) Inconsistent hand checking calls (I was the first to post about it).

4) Angel Reese taunting Caitlin Clark (I was the first to post about it) and Clark taunting South Carolina opponents, touched upon a possible racist component, the taunt's possible effect on Reese’s NIL money, and the effect of NIL money on college basketball in general.

5) A reply to JRutledge’s “not calling a foul, but gave them the out of bounds kind of situation” post and how this ancient philosophy may have changed over the years (at least it has for me).

6) A reply to JRutledge’s “that does not mean you change the entire rulebook” (regarding calling or not calling in important tournament games) post with a “water on the floor delay” in an important high school tournament game post.

7) An agreeing reply to JRutledge’s “I make a habit of not chasing any basketball” post with a similar post about keeping your eyes on the players (and how I almost lost a basketball).

I don't recall a single instance of answering my own question in the next post (but I could be wrong).

Of course, granted, not all of my posts were fully 100% on topic.

I really, really hated reading Pride and Prejudice, and I know barely more than the starting lineups of the Red Sox and Celtics.

[Raymond]

@BillyMac, there are 8 different posts where you quote yourself..

The 2nd longest post in this thread is some rambling nonsense that had nothing to do with officiating (the longest post is a list of plays from a game, not someone's soliloquy like yours).

You hijacked the thread every time is got too slow for you.