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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 29, 2022, 03:28pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
You can disagree with whether it is necessary or not, but the above is precisely the thinking they were trying to get rid of with the change. They were very clear that they do not want you trying to decide if it is an advantage or not. If a player touches another player with his/her hand in one of the forms described, it is a handchecking foul. It is an advantage by definition in the case of handchecking.

Yet, there continues to be large resistance to this change.
Completely agree. And at the HS level, absent taking away postseason assignments there really is not much you can do about the old guys who still subscribe to the old way of thinking.
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Old Wed Jun 29, 2022, 04:14pm
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Old Habits Die Hard ...

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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
... not much you can do about the old guys who still subscribe to the old way of thinking.
Hey. I'm one of those old guys, but I (and my interpreter, and my assigner (also old)) subscribe to 10-7-12 as written, while still using 4-27 for almost all other types of fouls, while also knowing that single, momentary "hot stove" touch with one hand is legal. However, I will admit that I will occasionally give a, "Hands off", warning early in the game before calling my first 10-7-12 handchecking "touch" foul. Old habits die hard.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jun 29, 2022 at 04:23pm.
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Old Wed Jun 29, 2022, 05:03pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Hey. I'm one of those old guys, but I (and my interpreter, and my assigner (also old)) subscribe to 10-7-12 as written, while still using 4-27 for almost all other types of fouls, while also knowing that single, momentary "hot stove" touch with one hand is legal. However, I will admit that I will occasionally give a, "Hands off", warning early in the game before calling my first 10-7-12 handchecking "touch" foul. Old habits die hard.
Talking players out of handchecks early in the game is supported by all my college supervisors. But it better be followed up with a whistle if not heeded. At the HS level too often those "warnings" don't get listened to by defenders yet the same officials who give those warnings won't blow the whistle.
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Old Wed Jun 29, 2022, 05:17pm
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Oral Warning ...

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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Talking players out of handchecks early in the game is supported by all my college supervisors. But it better be followed up with a whistle if not heeded. At the HS level too often those "warnings" don't get listened to by defenders yet the same officials who give those warnings won't blow the whistle.
For me, if I warn, a big if, it's almost always one oral warning per team, per game, and oral warnings seldom, if ever, go past the first period. I've got a whistle, and I know how to use it.
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Old Wed Jun 29, 2022, 05:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Talking players out of handchecks early in the game is supported by all my college supervisors. But it better be followed up with a whistle if not heeded. At the HS level too often those "warnings" don't get listened to by defenders yet the same officials who give those warnings won't blow the whistle.
When this rule came in place, I would and still do say "hands, hands, hands" even if the player never touches the ball handler. I say this because at least they know I am watching. I have yet to have a single coach say something to me about doing that or even if they hear me in the first place. But when I do that they often pull their hands back or never touch the ball handler, so it is not something that really has to be called that much. But when they do, I use my judgment and often call fouls on handchecking without much debate from any coaches. It is usually a certain coach or team that seems to not understand the rules that have to take a few fouls to get the message. Most of the time coaches say right after a handchecking foul and sometimes before, "Show your hands."

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Old Wed Jun 29, 2022, 05:40pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Completely agree. And at the HS level, absent taking away postseason assignments there really is not much you can do about the old guys who still subscribe to the old way of thinking.
How many of our games are reviewed by the state or association? I doubt there are many games reviewed independently to know if we are doing things correct. Unless you have someone come out and they see you are not doing things a certain way. I think that is a stretch.

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Old Wed Jun 29, 2022, 06:29pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
How many of our games are reviewed by the state or association? I doubt there are many games reviewed independently to know if we are doing things correct. Unless you have someone come out and they see you are not doing things a certain way. I think that is a stretch.



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That's why I'm going to be performing that duty for my association this season. I'll go to games and I'll also watch whatever I can find online.

But I will not be trying to advise veteran officials things I may have done differently. But I will openly give advice or "things to think about" to newer and younger officials. And I will pass on my favorable impressions to my commissioner.

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Old Thu Jun 30, 2022, 09:19am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
But I will openly give advice or "things to think about" to newer and younger officials.
Even after forty-plus years, when we get to the locker room after a game I always ask my partner, "So did you see anything that could improve my game?".
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Old Thu Jun 30, 2022, 09:38am
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Chutes and Ladders ...

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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
That's why I'm going to be performing that duty for my association this season. I'll go to games and I'll also watch whatever I can find online.
Thank you for your service.

We have an Observation and Mobility Team of about two dozen members. They have all been active on our rule and mechanics training committees, and all are veteran post season experienced officials.

They try to see every official (270 members) on our local board, as partners, or by showing up early and observing junior varsity games. If they have to make more than just a few non-working trips to observe, they don't have to pay annual board dues. Our assistant assignment commissioner is in charge of scheduling these observations.

Those who are observed by members of this Observation and Mobility Team are encouraged to ask team members for constructive criticism at the site.

The Observation and Mobility Team annually meets with our assignment commissioner and assistant commissioner. Determinations are made regarding next year's assignments - all varsity games, all subvarsity games, or an in between "probationary" designation (both varsity games and subvarsity games) for those on their way up the ladder, or on their way down the ladder.

Only the Pope, and Supreme Court justices, are "varsity for life".
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jun 30, 2022 at 09:48am.
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