SPU / Purdue 2:40

[FlasherZ]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

That’s because there had been possession and the IW came a second or so later.

Why would you go to the arrow for an IW when a team was in control?

I still think they ruled it a SC violation.

If it was ruled a possession by SPU on the end-line jump, then Purdue #2 regains possession, and the IW comes just as the SPU player stabs at the ball to knock it loose (before he secured possession).

I don't see how they make it SPU's ball unless they rule it a SC violation.

Originally Posted by Raymond

Game clock doesn't stop just because the shot clock hits zero, so that doesn't make sense.

I didn't understand this part either, but it's what the officials told the media crew at 5:25 in the YouTube video, posted above. *shrug*

If it's possession by SPU and then an IW after Purdue #2 secured and was dribblng with the ball, then it should be Purdue's ball right?

If it's possession by SPU and then an IW after SPU stabbed at the ball to knock it loose, then it should be arrow, right?

If it's an SC violation by Purdue and ruled not possession, it should be SPU's ball on the violation, but I would assume SC gets reset to 30 and game clock gets reset to 2:41 when SC violation occured, right?

Did they rule possession by SPU, then possession by Purdue, then possession by SPU after stabbing the ball? Problem with this is that Purdue #2 stops pursuing the loose ball when he hears the whistle, resulting in SPU ending up with it.

Not challenging any of you, just trying to understand it myself. The net result didn't seem to make sense and I couldn't find any official explanations anywhere.

[ilyazhito]

The shot clock should not be at 29 on a change of possession. The correct ruling would be to blow the whistle as soon as it is clear that Purdue will not attempt a shot before 0 (that could be with the shot clock at 0 with the ball rolling around).

If the whistle was blown, and the ruling was inadvertent whistle with no control, Purdue would get the ball on the AP arrow. However, they would lose the ball instantly due to the shot clock violation. This is the same as the team having the arrow, yet being awarded possession on a held ball with 20 seconds on the shot clock, where they are entitled to possession, but cannot legally gain possession because doing so would cause a 10-second violation.

If St. Peter's had controlled the ball, but then there was an indavertent whistle (unlikely), then, they would get the ball with whatever was on the shot clock. Since the shot clock was not reset, it would mean that in this scenario, the shot clock would go to 30.

If somehow Purdue had controlled the ball again when the inadvertent whistle had happened, they would get the shot clock reset to 30 seconds, because they possessed a live ball in the frontcourt after possession by the opponent.

However, in no scenario is the shot clock going to be at 29 to start a possession. As I see it, St. Peter's will get possession in almost any scenario with 30 seconds on the shot clock, due to the shot clock violation by Purdue.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The shot clock should not be at 29 on a change of possession. The correct ruling would be to blow the whistle as soon as it is clear that Purdue will not attempt a shot before 0 (that could be with the shot clock at 0 with the ball rolling around).

If the whistle was blown, and the ruling was inadvertent whistle with no control, Purdue would get the ball on the AP arrow. However, they would lose the ball instantly due to the shot clock violation. This is the same as the team having the arrow, yet being awarded possession on a held ball with 20 seconds on the shot clock, where they are entitled to possession, but cannot legally gain possession because doing so would cause a 10-second violation.

If St. Peter's had controlled the ball, but then there was an indavertent whistle (unlikely), then, they would get the ball with whatever was on the shot clock. Since the shot clock was not reset, it would mean that in this scenario, the shot clock would go to 30.

If somehow Purdue had controlled the ball again when the inadvertent whistle had happened, they would get the shot clock reset to 30 seconds, because they possessed a live ball in the frontcourt after possession by the opponent.

However, in no scenario is the shot clock going to be at 29 to start a possession. As I see it, St. Peter's will get possession in almost any scenario with 30 seconds on the shot clock, due to the shot clock violation by Purdue.

The shot clock would be at 29 seconds if it was ruled that Saint Peter's saving the ball what's player control and therefore the start of a new possession. That would make the whistle an inadvertent whistle while St Peter's was still in team control.

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[ilyazhito]

That's strange. I would have expected the officials to stop play when the shot clock hit zero and there was no player control or a shot in flight.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That's strange. I would have expected the officials to stop play when the shot clock hit zero and there was no player control or a shot in flight.

You need to watch the video from the 1:30 mark. There are variables to the play that you don't seem to be taking into account. You have to be ready to adjudicate unusual situations.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

You have to be ready to adjudicate unusual situations.

Agree. 98% plus of the calls that we make during a season are "garden variety" calls, they (travel, block/charge, etc.) may be difficult, but it's usually "been there, done that".

We should, hopefully, also be able to "step up" "where the rubber meets the road" and correctly make those once in a season, once in a decade, or once in a career calls. That's why basketball officials get paid the big bucks.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The shot clock would be at 29 seconds if it was ruled that Saint Peter's saving the ball what's player control and therefore the start of a new possession. That would make the whistle an inadvertent whistle while St Peter's was still in team control.

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I agree with that, but there is a case to be made that Purdue had some control if that is what is ruled. The Purdue player bounces the ball like 3 times before the St. Peters player touches the ball and maybe even takes it away from him. So if that is possession on the save, why not possession on the Purdue taking the ball after the save?

Peace

[FlasherZ]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with that, but there is a case to be made that Purdue had some control if that is what is ruled. The Purdue player bounces the ball like 3 times before the St. Peters player touches the ball and maybe even takes it away from him. So if that is possession on the save, why not possession on the Purdue taking the ball after the save?

That's what I was getting at above, less eloquently -- can anyone argue that Purdue didn't have possession when #2 dribbled it 3 times before the whistle is heard? So if it were ruled an SPU possession over the endline, then Purdue possession on the dribble, followed by IW prior to SPU gaining control, how do we restart with a 29 second SC and ball for SPU?

The whistle came just as the SPU player stabbed at the ball to knock it loose - he certainly didn't have control, and the Purdue player gave up pursuit based on the whistle...

Ah well, it won't really change the outcome - but I really didn't understand how it could end up where it did. Maybe best to let this dead horse be processed.

Here's a question for those in the know - does NCAA replay allow for broadcast audio to be heard so that the precise timing of the whistle could be determined? Or is it visual video only? Perhaps that's the reason? They assumed that the IW came before it actually did?

[ilyazhito]

If St. Peter's had possession on the throw-back, and Purdue possessed the ball afterwards, then the shot clock would have to be reset to 30 seconds and a new possession given to Purdue. I can't see how St. Peter's gets possession with 29 seconds based on the sequence in the video.
If there is no team control on the bat by St. Peter's (or the whistle was blown earlier), then St. Peter's gets possession with a 30 second shot clock due to the shot clock violation by Purdue.