Texas Tech v. Notre Dame dunk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

"He used the ring to assist himself in scoring".

Did he really assist himself and gain an advantage, or are you just saying that to support the technical foul charge (reverse engineering)?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Did he really assist himself and gain an advantage, or are you just saying that to support the technical foul charge (reverse engineering)?

If a coach questioned that aspect of my call, my response would be "That's my judgment of the play. Why did he grab the rim?"

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

"That's my judgment of the play."

Can't argue with that.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Gotta go along with the experienced college guys, JRutledge and Raymond.

[tnolan]

What I dislike about the NFHS penalty here is that if you go player technical, the opposing team receives the ball at half court.
I get that the action is illegal (insert "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" analogy) but you've basically awarded half the distance of the court as well which could be a huge advantage based on certain game scenario.
Arguing both sides....it would be crucial to penalize this correctly for that reason as well.

I'd like to see changes to the NFHS technical foul rules. I haven't had time to match them up with NCAA-M or think the penalties all the way through, but I would like to see the penalties lessened, possibly in certain scenarios for a few different reasons.

[tnolan]

The Lead would've been the only official in position to see this, actually slightly behind the play due to the steal, he would've had a great angle at the off-hand.
IF he even sees it, my guess is that this is close enough to let go as it would've been a huge momentum killer. No one likes technical fouls on big dunks...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tnolan

What I dislike about the NFHS penalty here is that if you go player technical ...

Unless your 100% certain that the player gained an advantage by touching the ring, go with basket interference, the only penalty is no basket. Little judgment is involved and it's easier to explain to a coach, or to one's assigner.

I believe that at least one other Forum member shares my opinion.

Originally Posted by tnolan

This is definitely OBI ...

[Zoochy]

A similar play happened in the NCAA tournament TWICE at least 4 years ago (maybe more). It created much discussion in my IAABO organization. Then I saw it happen in a High School (NFHS) game the following year and the referee called a Technical foul.
Then I saw it happen in the Missouri Valley Conference Tournament. So I posted the play and asked about the penalty
https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ical-foul.html

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by tnolan

What I dislike about the NFHS penalty here is that if you go player technical, the opposing team receives the ball at half court.
I get that the action is illegal (insert "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" analogy) but you've basically awarded half the distance of the court as well which could be a huge advantage based on certain game scenario.
Arguing both sides....it would be crucial to penalize this correctly for that reason as well.

I'd like to see changes to the NFHS technical foul rules. I haven't had time to match them up with NCAA-M or think the penalties all the way through, but I would like to see the penalties lessened, possibly in certain scenarios for a few different reasons.

I don’t like the FED rule but the NCAA-M rules are a mess that doesn’t need to trickle down to HS.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I don’t like the FED rule ...

I tried but I couldn't find a video, or a photo, but if one could have seen Virginia's Ralph Sampson dunk with a hand on the backboard in 1981, as I did, one would instantly know that this act gave him an enormous advantage, no question. Brigham Young's Danny Ainge thought Sampson's play was illegal (it was legal at the time), and complained so much that it cost him a technical foul.

Sampson would not have been able to complete that dunk without his hand pushing on the backboard and guiding him, so it was codified and definitely made illegal, by rule, and by intent and purpose.

But a simple, non-advantageous touch? Not so sure.

High school and college players touch the backboard and/or ring all the time. Sometimes it's illegal. Sometimes it's legal.

Ralph Sampson’s (Virginia 1979-1983, NBA 1983-1995) controversial basket against Brigham Young in the 1981 NCAA tournament prompted an NCAA rule change. The seven foot, four inch Virginia Cavalier All-American center dunked the ball with his free hand braced against the backboard. The basket led to a five point swing for Virginia which capitalized on a technical foul against Brigham Young's Danny Ainge who thought Sampson's play was illegal. Actually Sampson did nothing wrong since, at the time, there was no rule making this an illegal play. Since 1983 NFHS rules now state that it’s illegal for player to place a hand on the backboard, or the ring, to gain an advantage.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I believe that at least one other Forum member shares my opinion.

LOL. After I looked at the rule book again, I've opened up to the idea of both calls being possible here.
By rule, sure...technical foul.
In game, point of least resistance...OBI.
Me personally, live game, and I actually see it...I most likely rule this a good dunk and continue on.

I'll take a wild guess, go out on a limb, and say that is not popular opinion...but I wouldn't fault an official for calling any of those 3 during live play for this instance.

Originally Posted by SC Official

I don’t like the FED rule but the NCAA-M rules are a mess that doesn’t need to trickle down to HS.

A different discussion for a different time/thread, but I've thought about 1 shot and the ball, 2 shots and POI so the possession wouldn't always change, etc... things that lessen the penalty so there's less of a negative connotation related to call. NFHS doesn't need to get too granular but since some technical fouls are sometimes adjudicated differently by different officials, sometimes I believe the penalty can be too harsh and game altering.