The Most Misunderstood NFHS Basketball Rules ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Try the traveling rules for the answer to your question.

Because the airborne shooter had picked up his pivot foot?

So the old adage that one can always legally pick up a fumble is "just" an old adage and not fully rule based and isn't always true?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, (unintentionally) drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

Note: Unintentionally added for clarity.

I'm deleting the above statement, that was very recent addition to the list, and not fully peer reviewed.

While it may be true, if I can't explain it to a coach, I'm probably not calling it, and I'm definitively not putting this statement in writing for a list that's supposed to clear up misunderstood rules, not make them even more misunderstood.

Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. (Proverbs 17:28)

If anybody can explain to me, in simple terms, that this statement is indeed factual, I'll be pleased to put it back on the list.

While there may indeed be exceptions to the old adage that one can always legally pick up a fumble, I am having a hard time understanding it in this situation.

4-21: A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player’s grasp.

4.15 Comment: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions. It is a dribble when a player stands still and bounces the ball. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches it to the floor once or more than once.

4.15.4 Situation D: While dribbling: (a) A1 bats the ball over the head of an opponent, runs around the opponent, bats the ball to the floor and continues to dribble; (b) the ball bounces away but A1 is able to get to it and continues to dribble; (c) the ball hits A1’s foot and bounces away but A1 is able to overtake and pick it up; or (d) A1 fumbles the ball in ending the dribble so that A1 must run to recover it. Ruling: Violation in (a), because the ball was touched twice by A1’s hand(s) during a dribble, before it touched the floor. In (b), even though the dribble was interrupted it has not ended and A1 may continue the dribble. In (c), the dribble ended when A1 caught the ball; and it ended in (d) when it was fumbled. Even though the dribble has ended in (c) and (d), A1 may recover the ball but may not dribble again. (9-5)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Note: Unintentionally added for clarity.

I'm deleting the above statement, that was very recent addition to the list, and not fully peer reviewed.

While it may be true, if I can't explain it to a coach, I'm probably not calling it, and I'm definitively not putting this statement in writing for a list that's supposed to clear up misunderstood rules, not make them even more misunderstood.

Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. (Proverbs 17:28)

If anybody can explain to me, in simple terms, that this statement is indeed factual, I'll be pleased to put it back on the list.

While there may indeed be exceptions to the old adage that one can always legally pick up a fumble, I am having a hard time understanding it in this situation.

4-21: A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player’s grasp.

The traveling rules state that foot movement not described as legal is illegal (quite the opposite of other rules where anything not listed as illegal is presumed to be legal). The rules then say that a player jumps while holding the ball only has 2 legal options...shoot or pass....before returning to the floor. The fact that they jumped while holding the ball has committed said player to one of those two actions....their options are set when they jump. Landing and picking up the ball is not one of the available options.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The traveling rules state that foot movement not described as legal is illegal. The rules then say that a player jumps while holding the ball only has 2 legal options ... shoot or pass .. .before returning to the floor. The fact that they jumped while holding the ball has committed said player to one of those two action ... their options are set when they jump. Landing and picking up the ball is not one of the available options.

Thanks Camron Rust. You've convinced me, and you did it in the simple terms that I asked for.

It's back on the list, in a clarified version.

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation because the airborne shooter didn't shoot or pass before landing and picking up the ball.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So the old adage that one can always legally pick up a fumble is "just" an old adage and not fully rule based and isn't always true.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The traveling rules state that foot movement not described as legal is illegal (quite the opposite of other rules where anything not listed as illegal is presumed to be legal).

Interesting take on this. Never heard it described this way before.

[BillyMac]

4-44 : Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
ART. 3 After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal..
ART. 4 After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Nothing about the ball being released because of a fumble.

Two choices, shoot or pass.

And the travel is because of the pivot foot being returned to the floor, having nothing to do with picking up the ball the ball? Correct?

Or does picking up the ball negate any possibility that this is a pass?

[BillyMac]

Wait a cotton picking minute.

With one very rare exception (below, only observed it called once), I thought that one had to be holding the ball to travel.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach ... traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball.

Isn't an airborne player who has fumbled the ball no longer holding the ball?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation because the airborne shooter didn't shoot or pass before landing and picking up the ball.

4-44 : Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.