Scrimmages

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

and avoid the sometimes inane rules arguments or rambling speeches

I didn't know you were in some little corner of CT.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

sometimes inane rules arguments or rambling speeches ... I didn't know you were in some little corner of CT.

Should read inane rules arguments AND rambling speeches.

And it's A specific little corner of Connecticut, not some, as any one of each of the four corners, more if one counts the little elbows as corners.

Of course I know of an esteemed Forum poster who always posts long rambling speeches (I knew Dr. Naismith, Blah, Blah, Blah, Yada, Yada, Yada) from a little corner of Toledo, Ohio.

Hint: His initials are Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Should read inane rules arguments AND rambling speeches.

And it's A specific little corner of Connecticut, not some, as any one of each of the four corners, more if one counts the little elbows as corners.

Of course I know of an esteemed Forum poster who always posts long rambling speeches (I knew Dr. Naismith, Blah, Blah, Blah, Yada, Yada, Yada) from a little corner of Toledo, Ohio.

Hint: His initials are Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

One could rewrite it that way of one didn't want to make sure the reader got the point. The redundancy is on purpose.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The redundancy is on purpose.

Might be a poster from any of the little Connecticut corners, not just my little corner. Might be a poster that only posts inane rules arguments, or it might be a poster that only posts rambling speeches. It might not be me.

[ilyazhito]

On the one hand, I understand why teams pay less for scrimmages (or even nothing) than real games. It's a dress rehearsal for the regular season games they will later play.

On the other hand, it is really annoying how unseriously teams take the officials at scrimmages. They expect the officials to just go along with whatever they want, when it's not that way in the regular season. The thing that really grinds my gears is the non-standard rules many scrimmages are played by. Deleting the score, resetting fouls at the quarters, and in one private school scrimmage I did a few days ago, an automatic bonus situation with 45 seconds left in each period. All this nonsense makes it difficult to figure out what is actually in play and what isn't, not to mention the irregular uniforms making it difficult to identify players. I appreciate working a scrimmage or two to get practice, but not when you're required to do them for free. Maybe offer some incentive (i.e. have the scrimmages serve as an extra training/evaluation opportunity).

[Valley Man]

We had 12+ technical fouls from all scrimmages and in one a coach actually getting 2 and ran IN A SCRIMMAGE

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

On the one hand, I understand why teams pay less for scrimmages (or even nothing) than real games. It's a dress rehearsal for the regular season games they will later play.

On the other hand, it is really annoying how unseriously teams take the officials at scrimmages. They expect the officials to just go along with whatever they want, when it's not that way in the regular season. The thing that really grinds my gears is the non-standard rules many scrimmages are played by. Deleting the score, resetting fouls at the quarters, and in one private school scrimmage I did a few days ago, an automatic bonus situation with 45 seconds left in each period. All this nonsense makes it difficult to figure out what is actually in play and what isn't, not to mention the irregular uniforms making it difficult to identify players. I appreciate working a scrimmage or two to get practice, but not when you're required to do them for free. Maybe offer some incentive (i.e. have the scrimmages serve as an extra training/evaluation opportunity).

Sometimes flexibility is important in officiating. When I do a scrimmage (and I do more in football than basketball and they are always paid), it's not my show, it's a practice involving two or more schools. The teams can do whatever they want, far as I'm concerned.

What I did learn from a HoF official who's since passed who was a mentor in my early days is this -- you don't call technical fouls or warn coaches in the scrimmages other than tell them to knock it off or you're going to the house. ESPECIALLY if they're free. That said, in my area, nobody says anything during scrimmages.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I appreciate working a scrimmage or two to get practice ...

As do I. Back when we were working free scrimmages (that many didn't want to work), I could work as many as I thought I needed to get ready for the season. Since we started getting paid, everybody wants in on the money, I seldom get as many assigned as I think that I need to get ready for the season.

Most years just one is assigned. One year the only scrimmage I did was a girls scrimmage. My first "real" game of the season was a boys game, and I didn't feel ready for the physicality, rapid pace, and above the rim action. Not being an offseason (AAU) guy, it was the first boys game I had worked in nine months. I was like a "deer in headlights" the first few minutes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

...in my area, nobody says anything during scrimmages.

Same here (with one exception from an out or area coach for me). Coaches are normally too busy in a scrimmage worrying about possible starters, possible off the bench players, who's varsity, who's junior varsity, who's freshman, who plays well together, who doesn't, what old plays, or new plays, are working, etc., to worry about the officiating. We even use our rookie mechanics training classes in a few varsity scrimmages and coaches hardly complain.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

On the one hand, I understand why teams pay less for scrimmages (or even nothing) than real games. It's a dress rehearsal for the regular season games they will later play.

On the other hand, it is really annoying how unseriously teams take the officials at scrimmages. They expect the officials to just go along with whatever they want, when it's not that way in the regular season. The thing that really grinds my gears is the non-standard rules many scrimmages are played by. Deleting the score, resetting fouls at the quarters, and in one private school scrimmage I did a few days ago, an automatic bonus situation with 45 seconds left in each period. All this nonsense makes it difficult to figure out what is actually in play and what isn't, not to mention the irregular uniforms making it difficult to identify players. I appreciate working a scrimmage or two to get practice, but not when you're required to do them for free. Maybe offer some incentive (i.e. have the scrimmages serve as an extra training/evaluation opportunity).

Why would you care? This is practice. How they keep score or if they keep score means nothing. The result is not real or even not based on anything but often shows the school and the coaches what they might look like. I had a scrimmage last week where no fans were present and we just blew the whistle. We were done in like 45 minutes. And yes, we got paid. Sign me up for that all day.

BTW, I live in Indiana and they have a set kind of scrimmage format to follow. They play games against other teams, but they have to do certain things like play zone or man to man during certain periods. And even have a format if you shoot free throws or not. The state I guess sets a standard and the schools choose a few options to follow. And we get paid for these. Fans from both schools and everything.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why would you care? This is practice. How they keep score or if they keep score means nothing ... format if you shoot free throws or not.

Agree with JRutledge. We're only there to blow the whistle for out of bounds, other violations, and fouls to keep the game moving in a semi-normal fashion.

Although it varies from school to school here, most scrimmages don't keep track of team fouls, thus, no one and one. Some will only shoot one shot for two shot fouls, teams don't need officials to practice free throws.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

On the one hand, I understand why teams pay less for scrimmages (or even nothing) than real games. It's a dress rehearsal for the regular season games they will later play.

On the other hand, it is really annoying how unseriously teams take the officials at scrimmages. They expect the officials to just go along with whatever they want, when it's not that way in the regular season. The thing that really grinds my gears is the non-standard rules many scrimmages are played by. Deleting the score, resetting fouls at the quarters, and in one private school scrimmage I did a few days ago, an automatic bonus situation with 45 seconds left in each period. All this nonsense makes it difficult to figure out what is actually in play and what isn't, not to mention the irregular uniforms making it difficult to identify players. I appreciate working a scrimmage or two to get practice, but not when you're required to do them for free. Maybe offer some incentive (i.e. have the scrimmages serve as an extra training/evaluation opportunity).

Unless we are training new officials, we dont even bother reporting fouls in scrimmages.

The teams dont really need us there other than to get them the feel of how officials are going to call fouls and and violations.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Unless we are training new officials, we don't even bother reporting fouls in scrimmages.

After nine months without working a game, it's a dress rehearsal for me as well as the teams. I always report, even if the players aren't wearing numbers (it's always zero). If my partners don't want to report, so be it. If my partners don't want to switch, so be it. I'll just report and not force a switch.

If I sound like a tight-ass, you'd be surprised that I ignore fashion police issues (although I do mention them to players and coaches ("When the season starts ..."), except safety issues, like jewelry.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here in Connecticut, we used to work scrimmages pretty-much for free (sometimes we got a slice of pizza, or a ham and cheese grinder, or a T-shirt, or ten dollars cash for gas and laundry).

We volunteered for these free scrimmages, with sign up sheets at our preseason meetings, or some schools directly contacted hometown (or alumni) officials. Scrimmages weren't assigned. We could work as many, or as few (even none) scrimmages as we wanted. We could work close to home if we wanted ...

This plan worked out great for basketball officials, nobody complained. Lots of goodwill between athletic directors, coaches, and officials. Basketball officials worked as many, or as few, scrimmages as they wanted, and as close to home, or as far away, as they wanted.

Then the CIAC, our state interscholastic sports governing body, got involved. Unlike basketball, several sports had difficulty getting free officials for scrimmages, especially field hockey and lacrosse.

So the CIAC mandated paid scrimmages in all sports. And they would be assigned by assigners, like regular season games, with Arbiter blocks, assignment fees, the whole nine yards.

Basketball scrimmage fees are set by the CIAC: $150 per scrimmage (3 officials $50 each, 2 officials $75 each). Because three person games are so rare in Connecticut, when three officials are sent (as they usually are) we usually work a two person game and rotate in every period. Assigned officials officiate a maximum six periods, or two hours per scrimmage. If a jamboree, or multiple-team, scrimmage is scheduled, then the fee structure must be agreed upon in advance with the assigner.

A few of our local guys actually liked the old way better, wanting to pick and chose partners, where, when, and how many scrimmages they wanted to work

Just got this email today:

Scrimmage Policy – the revised Scrimmage Policy is posted to the website. The Executive Committee (EC) increased the scrimmage fee for next season from $150 to $240 for three assigned officials and for years 2025 thru 2028 to $330. The policy will be e-mailed to school Athletic Directors.

A 60% increase!