Its Got No Teeth ...

[JRutledge]

Why are we worried about what a coach thinks is a POE?

I ask this because yes coaches point them out sometimes, but many are unaware that was even mentioned or in the rules book or an interpretation. Are we officiating differently because they are aware or not aware of them? No!!! At least I am not.

Coaches have an agenda when they tell us stuff. It can often be wrong, but not all the time, but often wrong.

Had a coach one time try to get me to call a goaltending call because the POE that year was about slapping the backboard and the last relevant time I can remember when a coach mentioning the POE of that year. He was totally wrong and it was a month or so into the season that year.

Use your skill to explain or not explain these things to a coach. But I am not going to tell them something I am not aware of in some position that has never been openly discussed.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why are we worried about what a coach thinks is a POE? Are we officiating differently because they are aware or not aware of them? No!!! ... Had a coach one time try to get me to call a goaltending call because the POE that year was about slapping the backboard ... Use your skill to explain or not explain these things to a coach.

Nice post JRutledge.

Officiate differently? No. Agree.

Why are we worried? Worried may be too strong a word. The issue is that coaches often misunderstanding rule changes or points of emphases can spark "irritating" conversations.

Sounds like JRutledge was able to use his excellent game management skills to "defuse" his goaltending conversation, but it would have been nice if it never happened (don't know how to achieve that, can't live with coaches preseason meetings, can't live without them). In somebody else's game it could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Tea time. One lump, or two?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice post JRutledge.

Officiate differently? No. Agree.

Why are we worried? Worried may be too strong a word. The issue is that coaches often misunderstanding rule changes or points of emphases can spark "irritating" conversations.

Sounds like JRutledge was able to use his excellent game management skills to "defuse" his goaltending conversation, but it would have been nice if it never happened. In somebody else's game it could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Tea time. One lump, or two?

You worry way too much about coaches and what they think and what they might say.

Know the rules, know how to quickly and concisely explain them, learn to communicate with coaches, learn when to ignore their comments, learn when to address their comments, learn when to penalize their comments. All these what-ifs worries of yours only lead to stagnation and officiating with fear instead of confidence.

[Raymond]

BTW, coaches don't get T's because they don't know the rules, they get them for unsporting behavior and conduct. I've never given a T to a coach for arguing about what a rule is.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

You worry way too much about coaches and what they think and what they might say.

Avoiding irritants is not the same as cowardly conduct. It's good game management.

Originally Posted by Raymond

... coaches don't get T's because they don't know the rules, they get them for unsporting behavior and conduct. I've never given a T to a coach for arguing about what a rule is.

What leads to the unsporting behavior and conduct? Most times it's a biased one sided view, or just anger at a missed call (we all miss calls occasionally), but sometimes it's due to a misinterpretation of a rule and 99% of the time the officials know the application of the rule better than the coach.

Example. Two years ago. Last minute of a close game. Small player in the act of shooting is barreled into by a much larger player like a linebacker hitting a running back. No attempt to block the shot, just a hard body check. Ball doesn't go in basket. I've got intentional foul for excessive contact. Coach questions me about my call, "That's not an intentional foul", as I report. I calmly take an extra step and explain my call to him. He actually agrees that there was excessive contact but that it isn't an intentional foul. I tell him that by definition, excessive contact is an intentional foul. I guess that didn't persuade him because as I walk back to administer the free throw, he questions me again, "That's not an intentional foul". So turn around to calmly talk to him again, leading with, "Was that contact excessive?". He replies that it was excessive and I tell him again that by definition, excessive contact is an intentional foul, and I walk back to administer the free throws with my partner. As we're lining up for the free throws he now proceeds to yell at me from across the gym, "You're wrong. That's not an intentional foul". Technical foul.

Definitely unsporting behavior and conduct. What lead to that? Arguing about what a rule is.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Avoiding irritants is not the same as cowardly conduct. It's good game management.



What leads to the unsporting behavior and conduct? Most times it's a biased one sided view, or just anger at a missed call (we all miss calls occasionally), but sometimes it's due to a misinterpretation of a rule and 99% of the time the officials know the application of the rule better than the coach.

Example. Two years ago. Last minute of a close game. Small player in the act of shooting is barreled into by a much larger player like a linebacker hitting a running back. No attempt to block the shot, just a hard body check. Ball doesn't go in basket. I've got intentional foul for excessive contact. Coach questions me about my call, "That's not an intentional foul", as I report. I calmly take and extra step and explain my call to him. He actually agrees that there was excessive contact but that it isn't an intentional foul. I tell him that by definition, excessive contact is an intentional foul. I guess that didn't persuade him because as I walk back to administer the free throw, he questions me again, "That's not an intentional foul". So turn around to calmly talk to him again, leading with, "Was that contact excessive?". He replies that it was excessive and I tell him again that by definition, excessive contact is an intentional foul, and I walk back to administer the free throws with my partner. As we're lining up for the free throws he now proceeds to yell at me from across the gym, "You're wrong. That's not an intentional foul". Technical foul.

Definitely unsporting behavior and conduct. What lead to that? Arguing about what a rule is.

The T is for unsporting behavior, not for not knowing the rule.

Since you already operate on the premise that coaches don't know the rules, shouldn't you have been able to avoid that "irritant"? Did worrying about what coaches might think prevent the situation from happening?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The T is for unsporting behavior, not for not knowing the rule.

If the coach had known the definition of a intentional foul, which he obviously didn't, then there would have been no technical foul because he agreed with me that the contact was excessive.

Originally Posted by Raymond

Since you already operate on the premise that coaches don't know the rules, shouldn't you have been able to avoid that "irritant"?

Not sure how? Knowing that he didn't know the rule, I twice calmly explained to him the definition of an intentional foul (that it included excessive contact), once from a step toward him from reporting area, and again face to face.

I am very patient with coaches (I coached for twenty-five years). I don't give out technical fouls like penny candy, nor do I falsely pride myself on not charging technical fouls, as some do. I am very confident in my game management skills, and I am evaluated as such by both evaluators and partners.

I honestly don't know how I could have avoided that technical foul. The coach was well behaved for thirty minutes. For some reason he decided to die on that hill.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice post JRutledge.

Officiate differently? No. Agree.

Why are we worried? Worried may be too strong a word. The issue is that coaches often misunderstanding rule changes or points of emphases can spark "irritating" conversations.

Sounds like JRutledge was able to use his excellent game management skills to "defuse" his goaltending conversation, but it would have been nice if it never happened (don't know how to achieve that, can't live with coaches preseason meetings, can't live without them). In somebody else's game it could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Tea time. One lump, or two?

It was not hard to tell the coach, "That is not the rule." Moved on and it did not change the call to his satisfaction. I did not have the time to give a rules clinic.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It was not hard to tell the coach, "That is not the rule." Moved on and it did not change the call to his satisfaction.

No such luck in my game. Still can't figure out how I could have handled it better. He was well behaved for thirty minutes. Changed like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. In a close game.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Two years ago. Last minute of a close game. Small player in the act of shooting is barreled into by a much larger player like a linebacker hitting a running back. No attempt to block the shot, just a hard body check. Ball doesn't go in basket. I've got intentional foul for excessive contact. Coach questions me about my call, "That's not an intentional foul", as I report. I calmly take an extra step and explain my call to him. He actually agrees that there was excessive contact but that it isn't an intentional foul. I tell him that by definition, excessive contact is an intentional foul. I guess that didn't persuade him because as I walk back to administer the free throw, he questions me again, "That's not an intentional foul". So turn around to calmly talk to him again, leading with, "Was that contact excessive?". He replies that it was excessive and I tell him again that by definition, excessive contact is an intentional foul, and I walk back to administer the free throws with my partner. As we're lining up for the free throws he now proceeds to yell at me from across the gym, "You're wrong. That's not an intentional foul". Technical foul.