Strange Case Continued ...

[JRutledge]

All wonderful, but all I said is we report the incidents, that is pretty much it. If a player is hurt we already remove them from the game. If is involves CLS, then they just have to inform us we are coming back. We report similar to a teacher that can report abuse or other things with children. Simple and not a big deal honestly. It rarely comes up.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... we report the incidents, that is pretty much it. If a player is hurt we already remove them from the game. If is involves CLS, then they just have to inform us we are coming back. We report similar to a teacher that can report abuse or other things with children.

Do you have a responsibility, as an official, to immediately remove from the game any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion (loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems), and/or to not allow them to return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care professional (not the coach)?

If so, that may come with some legal liability issues if an official doesn't remove such a player from the game, or allows said player to return with just a coaches recommendation (as in a middle school game), and they suffer more serious injuries as a result of continuing to play, or because of being allowed to reenter. That could be viewed as legally negligent behavior.

Thanks to our State legislature, we don't have that problem here in Connecticut. If a coach allows an inured player to continue, or to renter, that's 100% on him, and he can get sued, he's trained, he's certified, and not covered by Good Samaritan laws.

Not a Connecticut official's job legally. We're not trained, we're not certified. No legal liability. Thank you State legislature.

Also, regarding teachers reporting abuse, it may certainly be different in your area, but in Connecticut, and in many other states, teachers (and school administrators) are mandatory reporters. It's not that they CAN report suspected abuse, it's that they MUST report suspected abuse, or be subject to criminal arrest for not reporting (up the legal ladder) suspected abuse, and we've had a few arrests in Connecticut for such irresponsible and negligent behavior. Same mandatory reporting laws also apply to doctors, nurses, social workers, etc.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Do you have a responsibility, as an official, to immediately remove from the game any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion (loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems), and to not allow them to return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care professional (not the coach)?

If so, that may come with some legal liability issues if an official doesn't remove such a player from the game, or allows said player to return with just a coaches recommendation (as in a middle school game), and they suffer more serious injuries as a result of continuing to play, or because of being allowed to reenter. That could be viewed as legally negligent behavior.

Legal liability comes when you do not follow the state law. This is not a personal or IHSA standard, this is a state law that involved officials in the reporting. No, we are not to go looking for signs, but if a player fell on their head and gets up walking towards the stands, they can be removed from the game as if any time there is an injury. That is why states have different laws and precedents of what takes place. All we do is report the incident and it is on the schools to explain their reasoning to higher-ups if they are let back in the game. The schools have an entirely different procedure they have to follow in order to be in compliance. Even if a school does not have a trainer or some medical doctor, then that just makes the entry of the game problematic. But if they say, "Mr. Williams allowed him to play" and they find out Mr. Williams is not a registered medical professional that can diagnose concussions, then that is on the school. We do not verify their credentials and doubt seriously we would even be liable if we reported the incident. Even if you did not report the incident, we do not have access to players that teams do. Part of the reason you have insurance in the first place is to deal with issues of liability. That did not change because of a law. It was already there. It is a requirement by law to have trainers and medical people at all contests with youth. There are things they have to do regardless of our role which honestly did not change. I am saying this as a person that officiates football and once did baseball and softball.

There was a famous case where an official in Texas ran into a football coach and the coach was in a coma. Long story short the coach got hurt and was the only one hospitalized, but the insurance company went after the officials for not enforcing the sideline rules. That is not state law, but because the officials were accused of being negligent by the insurance company, they had to deal with a lawsuit. The lawsuit was thrown out, but involved some time to litigate. That had nothing to do with a state law but an accusation of negligence. I am sure if someone thought you did not stop the game because of an injury and the injury was bad, I am sure you would could be sued either way if someone felt you did not stop the game properly. You are not a doctor there either. And I work for an insurance company so I can tell you that if liability is in question, they can and will sue to regain their costs.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Thanks to our State legislature, we don't have that problem here in Connecticut. If a coach allows an inured player to continue, or to renter, that's 100% on him, and he can get sued, he's trained, he's certified, and not covered by Good Samaritan laws.

Not a Connecticut official's job legally. We're not trained, we're not certified.

Also, regarding teachers reporting abuse, it may certainly be different in your area, but in Connecticut, and in many other states, teachers are mandatory reporters. It's not that they CAN report suspected abuse, it's that they MUST report suspected abuse, or be subject to criminal arrest for not reporting suspected abuse (up the legal ladder), and we've had a few arrests in Connecticut for such irresponsible and negligent behavior.

When Hank Gathers died, multiple doctors and administrators got sued. Many people had nothing to do with his death or diagnosis and that included doctors in the gym at the time. I do not know what problem you think you are absolved from, I bet if you let a kid play that might have been suffering from something and they get further hurt or die, someone could decide you are not doing your job. Again, it does not mean they are right, but nothing you said eliminates your potential liability or assumption of liability. A law just has to be challenged in court. Until then, the procedure is irrelvant.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... if a player fell on their head and gets up walking towards the stands, they can be removed from the game ...

CAN or MUST? Big difference.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Legal liability comes when you do not follow the state law.

Civil law legal liability.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I bet if you let a kid play that might have been suffering from something and they get further hurt or die, someone could decide you are not doing your job ... potential liability or assumption of liability ...

Agree. In civil court, anybody can sue anybody for anything at any time. It's the American way. Even if one in the right, one still has to hire an attorney, and billable hours aren't inexpensive.

I still believe that my State legislature did officials a big favor by relieving officials of all responsibilities regarding concussions, and putting it on the coaches and health care professionals.

The State law has to (hopefully) carry some weight in civil court.

It was considered a big win for Connecticut officials when it happened several years ago.

"Hey coach. Check number thirty-four. He looks a little wobbly", ends the legal responsibility of Connecticut officials.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

CAN or MUST? Big difference.

You are right. We are not responsible for kids that have a concussion.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Civil law legal liability.

Yes, no one is going to jail over this unless there is a law saying you must do so and the violation is a criminal statute. Similar to like my profession you can be civilly liable for fraud, but you can be criminally liable as well.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. In civil court, anybody can sue anybody for anything at any time. It's the American way. Even if one in the right, one still has to hire an attorney, and billable hours aren't inexpensive.

I am sure the law in Connecticut can be challenged in court, similar to other recent laws passed by state legislation (masks, abortion, voting rights, school choice and legality of who can decide to do these things).

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I still believe that my State legislature did officials a big favor by relieving officials of all responsibilities regarding concussions, and putting it on the coaches and health care professionals.

OK. Was not disputing anything your state does. Just telling you what our state does.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The State law has to (hopefully) carry some weight in civil court.

State laws are overturned by courts all the time. It is based on if the law was written did not violate other legal statutes or precedent. Not a lawyer but I know when the state law was written here, it actually was said to help eliminate our responsibility and put a lot on the schools. Some lawyers asked for us to ask for more detail when a player was to reenter the game to cover themselves more.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It was considered a big win for Connecticut officials when it happened several years ago.

"Hey coach. Check number thirty-four. He looks a little wobbly", ends the legal responsibility of Connecticut officials.

Well, then you guys are doing the right thing for you. I live in a much more populated state with many more school districts so we had to do something I am sure to help protect the players that are students from being forced to play without a check-up or playing because they want to hide a possible injury. Either way I am good with what we are asked to do because telling a coach a kid is wobbly is not something I want to tell a coach. And again I do football where head injuries are common. I am cool with what we are asked to do.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Was not disputing anything your state does. Just telling you what our state does.

My state is better than your state. Na na na na na.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My state is better than your state. Na na na na na.

In basketball? OK.

Peace